Dr. Rebecca Williams is a clinical psychologist, performance coach, and the author of Climb Smarter. We talked about the deeper fears that often underlie fear of falling, the underdeveloped self-soothing system, breathing exercises to reduce anxiety, pre-climb routines, meditation and mindfulness, and the benefits of shifting our focus from achievement to mastery.Climb Smarter:Buy on Amazon (best if you are in the US or Canada)Buy from Sequoia Books  (best if you are in the UK or Europe)Check out Grasshopper Climbing!grasshopperclimbing.cominstagram.com/grasshopperclimbingTell them I sent you to save $500 off a fully kitted out 8'x10' Grasshopper board! Check out Arc'teryx!arcteryx.comArc'teryx Presents: Free as Can BeCheck out Rhino Skin Solutions!rhinoskinsolutions.comUse code “NUGGET” at checkout for 20% off your next order!And check out EP 22 with Justin Brown to learn more about how to use Rhino products!Check out Shortform!shortform.com/nuggetUse this link to get a free 5-day trial, and 20% off an annual subscription!We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, Craig Lee, and Mark and Julie CalhounBecome a Patron:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingShow Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/rebecca-williamsNuggets:0:07:32 – Kids0:09:29 – Rebecca’s background in clinical psychology0:13:04 – Why Rebecca quit gymnastics as a teenager0:17:55 – How the mental blocks from gymnastics came back to haunt her as a climber0:20:17 – The deeper fears at the roots of fear of falling, and trust and control0:24:30 – Why it’s important to know where your fear of falling comes from, and the woman with the worm phobia0:28:32 – Diving deeper into different fears0:30:54 – Fear of fear, and learning to tolerate difficult feelings0:33:14 – Learning to tolerate difficult emotions0:37:09 – My (Steven’s) own experience with fear of falling when I started sport climbing, and tools for letting go of control0:44:16 – The overdeveloped drive and threat systems, and the underdeveloped self-soothing system0:46:32 – “We’re always conquering”, common narratives, and why fear of falling is rational0:53:16 – Rebecca’s mental warmup, and bringing arousal levels down0:58:30 – Not wanting to stray from “normal”1:03:04 – Introducing doubts to our assumptions1:08:38 – Breathing exercises to bring down arousal and anxiety1:14:31 – Pre-climb routines, focusing before a send attempt, and mindfulness as an attitude1:19:16 – Meditation and why it’s useful1:24:31 – What practicing mindfulness has done for me (Steven) and how it has impacted my life1:28:14 – “Falling practice is the last thing you do, and not the first thing you do.”1:30:01 – Does practicing non-attachment take away our drive? And shifting our focus from achievement to mastery1:33:00 – Why Rebecca decided to write her book Smart Climbing1:37:05 – The nutrition chapter of the book, and the link between perfectionism and eating disorders1:43:45 – What Rebecca is currently working on in her own climbing (related to mental game)1:48:07 – Who the book is for, and where to buy it1:49:25 – What’s next for Rebecca1:50:34 – Rediscovering your early excitement for climbing