Joey Jannsen and Rich Breuner are the founders of Ocelot Grips. We talked about their “why” for starting a climbing hold company, why the small details matter, how to make dual tex, why you can’t buy their holds online, building relationships with your customers, being fans of sports, the future of indoor climbing, the entrepreneurial spirit, producing underground hip-hop concerts, cage fighting, and much more!Check out Ocelot Grips! ocelotgrips.com*Not a paid endorsement, I just think they're cool!Check out AG1!drinkAG1.com/NUGGETUse this link to get a free year's supply of vitamin D + 5 travel packs!Check out Rocky Talkie!RockyTalkie.com/NuggetUse this link to get 10% off your first order of backcountry radios!Check out Wonderful Pistachios!WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more!Check out Crimpd!crimpd.comOr download the Crimpd app!Check out Rumpl!rumpl.com/nuggetUse code "NUGGET" at checkout for 10% off your first order!We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Renzollama, Zach Emery, and Brandt MickolasBecome a Patron:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingShow Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/joey-and-richNuggets:0:04:20 – Soundcheck and bevies0:05:30 – Rich talks about producing underground hip-hop shows during the summers in college0:09:08 – Joey talks about cage fighting0:11:53 – My background in manufacturing climbing holds, and our conversation six years ago about their idea for Ocelot0:14:05 – Why they decided to outsource their production0:15:37 – Joey’s background in route setting and shaping0:18:52 – Joey’s “why” for starting Ocelot Grips0:22:06 – Rich’s “why” for starting Ocelot Grips, and his background in business operations and management0:24:53 – Expressing your identity through business0:26:15 – The Hedgehog concept0:28:12 – Why they chose the name Ocelot0:29:09 – How The Nugget got its name0:33:08 – What sets Ocelot apart from other brands, and the Shade Theory series0:38:56 – Having a flavor0:40:55 – Wanting to be involved in the setting community0:44:47 – Why you can’t buy Ocelot holds online0:48:50 – Getting feedback0:51:53 – Attention to detail0:56:26 – How you do something is how you do everything0:56:58 – Ocelot’s manufacturing partner Peak Performance Polymers1:00:23 – Joey’s dual tex process, and how climbing holds are made1:05:29 – The logo1:07:05 – The business planning phase, processing orders, and learning as you go1:09:33 – Biggest challenges, and building Ocelot as a side hustle1:11:46 – Bluey1:12:40 – How far they’ve come, and what it will take for Ocelot to be their full-time jobs1:15:48 – Making career choices to maximize time1:18:40 – Where to climb on Ocelot holds, and gratitude1:21:38 – Joey describes the four current families of Ocelot holds1:25:38 – Wanting to see their holds in competitions1:29:54 – Being sports fans, and being excited about where climbing is heading1:38:45 – Novel moves in competitions1:41:15 – Putting on more than 50 competitions1:44:11 – Joey shares a few nuggets for route setters (relevant for creative people)1:54:01 – Rich shares a few nuggets about business2:01:48 – Where to find Ocelot, and wrap up