Joe Kinder is one of the hardest-working route developers in North America. We talked about his recent ascent of ‘Kinder Cakes’ 5.15a in Rifle, CO,  putting up routes in mediocre rock, leaving a legacy through route development, his love of projecting, current training approach, fashion influences, creating LOV, and his experience with cancellation and rebuilding a new life.Check out Chalk Cartel:chalkcartel.comUse code "NUGGET" at checkout for 20% off your next order!Support the Podcast:thenuggetclimbing.com/supportWe are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Bryan Fast, Leo FranchiBecome a Patron:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingShow Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/joe-kinderNuggets:6:50 – Clipping chains, Joe’s goals for his trip to Rifle, and the Wicked Cave11:01 – Putting up routes in mediocre rock14:54 – The responsibility and reward of putting up routes, and leaving a legacy18:16 – Establishing vs. FAing a route, and keeping routes open vs. red-tagging22:14 – “It’s a case-to-case scenario.”24:55 – Putting up hard vs. moderate routes, giving back, and being surprised by the difficulty of new lines27:33 – The emotional rollercoaster of projecting, how Joe and I met, and his love of climbing33:04 – Climbing as a drug addiction34:57 – My “addicty” behavior, and why Joe finds Jonathan Siegrist fascinating38:31 – The ebbs and flows, breaks, and comebacks43:59 – Embracing the plan B’s of life44:56 – Lessons from finger injuries49:18 – The Skull Cave, and how ‘Diarrhea Mouth’ got its name52:29 – ‘Kinder Cakes’, proposing grades, and picking limit projects in your style58:20 – Breakdown of ‘Kinder Cakes’, the send, and those special moments1:03:46 – The days after ‘Kinder Cakes’, and needing to work1:06:16 – Sushi celebration1:07:25 – How ‘Kinder Cakes’ stacks up against Joe’s other hardest routes, and “we do what we can”1:09:05 – Joe’s early climbing in New England, and the project-focused approach1:11:18 – Joe’s first experience with training, and planning his year around the Rifle project1:13:39 – Getting training ideas from Eric Horst, Patxi Usobiaga, and developing his own program1:16:37 – ‘Activator’, watching Cam repeat ‘Bone Tomahawk’, and Joe’s year leading up to ‘Kinder Cakes’1:23:47 – Purchasing strength, Joe’s outdoor vs. indoor balance, and more about the ‘Goonies’ project1:28:29 – The ‘Bone Tomahawk’ extension project1:31:47 – How Joe trained for ‘Kinder Cakes’ (month 1)1:41:31 – Training as a callus, and taking your time to build it up1:41:46 – How Joe trained for ‘Kinder Cakes’ (month 2)1:44:55 – Thoughts about in-season strength maintenance1:46:37 – Keeping an open mind, dropping the ego, and lessons from the Spaniards1:50:10 – “Always try shit.”1:50:39 – Who Joe looks up to in climbing1:53:38 – The current era of pro climbing, and how pro climbing has evolved1:57:01 – Stories, podcasting, and creating balance2:00:25 – Joe’s movies, LOV as a creative outlet1:04:55 – How LOV (Life of Villains) got its name, and rooting for the villains in movies2:07:25 – More about LOV (the brand), and collaborations with non-profits2:12:07 – Patron Question from Devon: How do you pick athletes for the LOV shirts, and can you make a replica of the Bruce Lee shirt that Josune is wearing in her photo?2:14:57 – Fashion influences, confidence, my bleached hair, and Joe’s nicknames for me2:20:42 – Patron Question from Ben: How does Joe’s experience climbing on established routes differ from FA’s?2:23:02 – Patron Question from Simon: Who has Joe drawn inspiration from outside of the sport of climbing?2:25:05 – Graffiti2:28:03 – Joe’s experience with cancelation2:42:09 – My thoughts about Joe and him rebuilding a new life2:47:45 – Thanks and an apology2:48:07 – Gratitude and appreciation2:50:01 – Support mode, then on to the next