On this episode Jeff revisits his interview with Ginger Lapid-Bogda, PhD, she is an expert in using the Enneagram personality typing system in business. Jeff & Ginger discuss how 80% of Fortune 500 companies use personality tests to assess employees and potential candidates. Ginger shares how the Enneagram, with its 9 types is inexpensive or free, and can help people not by putting them "in a box," but helping them "get out of the box." Together they explore her book “Transform your Team with the Enneagram. Build trust, decrease stress, and increase productivity.” Ginger helps us take a pragmatic look at team dynamics and shows us how the different Enneagram types relate to the “forming, storming, norming, and performing" model. Jeff and Ginger discuss the difference between a group and a team, and why impatience is the greatest enemy of becoming a high-performing team. Ginger shares with Jeff the benefits of using assessment tools which include improved self-awareness, understanding candidates better, shortening the recruitment cycle, reducing bias, spotting dark personality traits, and learning to work better together. And they also talk about the other side, the problems, that include inaccuracies, unintended recruitment bias, and interpretation problems.