In this episode Judith Germain and Katherine Lazaruk discuss professional presence and leadership beyond stereotypical norms. Key Takeaways Leadership presence is innate and can be cultivated, but does not guarantee taking on a leadership role. Knowing your true self and being congruent with internal and external expression builds presence. Diverse perspectives are needed at leadership tables for organisations to thrive. Non-white women face double bias and must navigate risks in self-expression. In this conversation Katherine argues leadership presence is more than superficial rules, exploring what's beyond the dominant white male paradigm. Judith counters some innate presence remains regardless of choices. They discuss how current success measures harm humanity and the planet. Continuous growth is unnatural; balance and limits are needed. Leadership must evolve for whole human beings. Katherine Lazaruk is a professional presence expert and maverick. She started her business in image consulting but hates shopping. Katherine knows what's it like to be an outlier in an industry and knows how it can be turned into an advantage. You can find out more about our guest and today's episode in this Maverick Paradox Magazine article here. --- Maverick leadership is all about thinking outside the box and challenging the status quo. It's about having the courage to take risks and the confidence to lead in a way that is authentic and genuine. But amplifying your influence as a leader isn't just about having a strong vision or a big personality. It's also about having the right leadership capability and being able to execute on your ideas and plans. The consequences of not having the right level of influence as a leader can be significant. Without the ability to inspire and motivate others, you may struggle to achieve your goals and make a real impact. How Influential Are you? Take the scorecard at amplifyyourinfluence.scoreapp.com and see.  Catalysing Transformation - 1 min video Judith's book: The Maverick Paradox: The Secret Power Behind Successful Leaders.  Judith's websites:  The Maverick Paradox Magazine - themaverickparadox.com The Maverick Paradox Website - maverickparadox.co.uk Judith's LinkedIn profile is here, her Twitter profile (MaverickMastery) is here, Facebook here and Instagram here.