In this episode, I talk with Hannah Thomas, a Senior Business Designer at Fjord London who is driven by a huge passion to create change towards a more sustainable future. We talk about how service and business designer can contribute drive business and services to be sustainable and circular. Hannah shares how she leverages her background in business with design skills and methods to create this change for clients, partners and projects.Furthermore, we learn the importance of having design joining the discourse of driving this change and how she is working from a Business Design perspective with other design disciplines like UX, UI, Products or Industrial Design to archive these goals. In addition, we bring more transparency into the difference between Service and Business design and what they both bring to the table to drive innovation.