A discussion about the history of wine in Napa, between Jim Schleckser, CEO of The CEO Project and host of The Lazy CEO Podcast, and Mark Gudgel, author and wine expert. Jim: For those of you that know me, and maybe some of you do, some of you don't, but I have an alter ego, and my alter ego is my involvement in wine. Several years ago, I decided to get kind of into wine beyond the drinking part, but the studying part, and, if anybody has ever done this, it's got phenomenal history and agriculture and geology and, and chemistry and all of this comes together in wine across thousands of years including, wars, death, taxation and just crazy what intersects with wine. So when offered the opportunity to talk to somebody who is working on a book in the wine space, and particularly for a very, very critical moment in history, I jumped at the opportunity to talk to him. So I have today with me, Mark Gudgel. So let's start with what got you interested in wine in the first place. Mark: Back when we were dating, my wife and I would drink wine. We had gone to a train concert while we were dating right after we got engaged, and Train came out with a wine they sold at Target called Drops of Jupiter, and it cost $12. And occasionally, I would splurge on that, but it cost twice as much as the wine I was used to drinking. So it was a splurge. Jim: That's funny. Well, even now, 90% of all wine that's drunk is below $20 a bottle. So, I get asked, is it good wine? For ten bucks a bottle. It's not a bad bottle of wine. It's all relative. Mark: A lot of times, people will ask me what's good wine. And I tell them every time - whatever you like, as long as you can afford it. I like Petrus, but I can't afford it. Not good wine for me. But if you like Sutter Home White Zinfandel, enjoy the heck out of it, and know that I'm jealous of you because I don't enjoy that bottle, and it costs about four bucks. So I wish I did. Jim: Sutter Home White Zen is known as the gateway drug to all wine drinkers. I think we all started on Sutter Home White Zindel, and hopefully, our tastes evolved over time.  Mark: That's so true. I reviewed Sutter Home for the American Winery Guide years ago. My editor called me; you're giving Sutter Home four stars out of five. I said this is one of the most important wineries in the world. How do people get from Bush Light to Cabernet Sauvignon? You know, not without rungs in the ladder. Jim: Let's go to geography for a minute. Let's go back to the beginning of Napa; what group of people really got Napa started? Mark: You've got this beautiful riparian space that carves its way in between these two small but beautiful mountain ranges, and everything grows there. And wildlife and game, and fish were abundant; it was an idyllic space. And the Spanish are attempting to make their way up the coast. The Mexicans become independent, but Mexico is this immense sprawling empire, and there just aren't that many Mexicans. And so they can't keep a grip on it. So, they attempt to build outposts and send expeditions up the coast and to hold onto their land.  This is when California, as we call it today, was part of Mexico. So, they wind up engaging in a strategy, and there are whole books about this where they issue massive, what they call Ranchos to people. Huge swaths of land are usually measured in leagues anywhere. Usually, they're somewhere between six and 12,000 acres. The largest was about 80,000 acres. That one was issued to General Vijo late in the process. But they're issuing big chunks of land to people, partly to encourage them to live there and partly to get some development going, and it works. For the longest time, it was a no man's land, he named that town Sevastopol when he built it. So, you've got these pioneers, if you like to call them that. And then you've got folks really establishing the wine trade and building. For more on the history of Napa Valley and wine, listen to The Lazy CEO Podcast.