What organizational dynamics cause NGOs and funders to make overblown outcome statements?  In this interview with Julia Coffman and Tanya Beer of the Center for Evaluation Innovation, two thought leaders in the space of  evaluation and organizational learning in the philanthropic and NGO sector, we address: What stops us as nonprofits from becoming more outcome-oriented? When your NGO starts a new strategy, can the evaluation folks not just inform the eventual measurement of that strategy but also help you with synthesizing what was learned up till that point? And why can the more ‘comfortable’ notion of organizational learning – rather than evaluation – lead to reinforcement of confirmation bias? Julia and Tanya address these complex questions, that all touch upon organizational dynamics, in their thoughtful responses to my interview questions. Enjoy! Julia Coffman's bio Julia Coffman is the Founder and Director of the Center for Evaluation Innovation. Her focus is advancing evaluation and learning practice in philanthropy. For 25 years, she's worked with dozens of foundations on their approaches to evaluation. She has particular expertise in evaluating advocacy and policy efforts, emphasizing real-time learning that helps organizations to adapt their strategies and continuously improve.  Tanya Beer's bioTanya Beer is the Associate Director for the Center for Evaluation Innovation. Tanya and Julia are both high profile thought leaders in the field of philanthropy and evaluation, as well as organizational learning. Tanya was formerly at the Colorado Trust, working on research, evaluation and learning. Resources:  Website: https://www.evaluationinnovation.org/ LinkedIn profile of Julia Coffman LinkedIn profile of Tanya Beer Terrific short reading on daily organizational learning habits by Julia Coffman Click here to subscribe to be alerted when new podcast episodes come out or when Tosca produces other thought leadership pieces. Or email Tosca at tosca@5oaksconsulting.orgif you want to talk about your social sector organization’s needs, challenges, and opportunities. You can find Tosca’s content by following her on her social media channels:  Twitter  LinkedIn Facebook