For our 4th episode of Step by Step Season 8, we’re covering how you can take your brand from having an eCommerce project mindset to a program mindset. Jon Reily from bounteous is here to chat about the difficult parts of shifting mindsets, how we're rewriting the rules, and more! Tune in now!A North Star or a South Star?Currently, a lot of brands are struggling with how to move from having an eCommerce project mindset to a program mindset. The most difficult part is that brands need to break the stigma that eCommerce is this big scary thing when it's not.“We went from calling things just selling things online to eCommerce and then we went back to, well, maybe just selling things online again. Have we come full circle?” – Brian“It all comes back to the design and you have to ensure that the design is solid in order to make it work.” – Jon“The downside of all of these tools being out there and being ubiquitous and available to virtually everybody is it's like everything's a nail and we're walking around with hammers trying to find where to use them.” – JonIn some ways, the programs still need to be in place as you build the foundation, or else you’ll be painting when you haven't finished the foundation.We are rewriting the rules of eCommerce every day because there is no set way to do things, we’re all learning every day and channels are seeking out answers every day.“Every single piece of disruption that takes place in a sector, in the following sector, the disruption happens twice as fast.” — JonThe systems that we build have to be able to flex in the future.The simple fact is that everyone needs to agree on what the end state is, define the end goal, and have a long-term plan. Associated Links:Want to learn more about data? Download our free Step by Step guide!Get connected with Fabric!Learn more about Jon Reily and bounteousListen to our other Step by Step seasonsFind our other Future Commerce episodes on our websiteHave any questions or comments about the show? Let us know on Futurecommerce.fm, or reach out to us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn. We love hearing from our listeners!