What happens when you mix a real, no kidding fear of going outside, a comedian, sharp wit and a no holds barred look at what’s really going on with outdoor recreation gate-keeping? You get an honest, hilarious and confronting look at what heading outside means in America -- and how you can change that. That’s the theme of Ivy Le’s narrative Spotify podcast FOGO, or Fear of Going Outside. Unlike basically every other guest I’ve ever had on Humans Outside, Ivy is definitely not outdoor-minded. But after trying outdoor stuff including camping and hunting, she’s got some takeaways to share that we all need to hear. Maybe the AI tool I use to help me with show notes says it best (or at least funniest). According to that tool, in this episode you’ll hear about: The anecdote for attracting attention in a state park. Challenging traditional ideas of camping and encouraging exploration for people of color. Ivy’s difficulty finding a nature store and going to REI instead. Acceptance of rats in New York City as sentient neighbors. (OK, this AI tool is fired -- but you’re intrigued, aren’t you?) Want to know what those takeaways have to do with anything? Listen now! Connect with this episode:  Check out the FOGO podcast Follow Ivy on Instagram Follow Ivy on Facebook Join the Humans Outside Challenge Follow Humans Outside on Instagram Follow Humans Outside on Facebook Some of the good stuff: [2:32] Wherein we bond over plumbing [3:48] Ivy’s favorite outdoor space [5:17] Making a show about going outside when you hate going outside [8:19] Did she find anything outside she actually likes? [10:30] When REI is something happens to you [13:30] The stuff she had to overcome to get out there [23:08] What has to happen to making getting outside less hard [27:08] Yes, she really tried hunting. Here’s what happened. [35:43] What’s really going on in the outdoor industry [42:19] Ivy’s favorite outdoor moment, and she does actually have one.