SummaryToday, I am interviewing Kirthi Jayakumar of World Pulse and founder of the Gender Security Project, and Leila Billing, senior advisor on youth, gender, and social movement building on Feminist Leadership. Leila, along with Natalie Brook, runs an open enrollment Feminist Leadership training program (We are Feminist Leaders), and Kirthi is one of its alumni.As some NGOs and development organizations have embraced, how much of its subversive elements get diluted and cooptated; and how should we think about this? Is there still good being achieved, or is there a real danger here? Kirthi’s Bio:Founder of the Gender Security ProjectHead of Training at World PulseDigital Engagement Manager at Every Woman TreatyAdvisor at Women7Editor at Cactus Communications Leila’s Bio:Senior advisor on gender, youth, and movement buildingCo-founder of We Are Feminist Leaders training programTrustee at Gender and Development NetworkHead of Partnership to End Child Marriage We discuss: We start from the premise of Srilatha Batliwala's beautiful phrase: "the self as a site of change". Self-reflection and self-awareness have to be at the start. But that is not enough. We also have to put in place concrete organizational practices that embody feminist leadership, such as:Normalization of a focus on staff/volunteer well-being and care – instead of on productivity and numbersOrganizations with zero deadlines and where people co-own the missionOrganizations where everybody has the same base salary, and people receive extra pay based on their caregiving responsibilitiesOrganizations where performance appraisal processes focus more on collaboration skills and attitude/aptitude and on sharing power rather than productivity against set targetsCultures where it is OK/encouraged to bring your full self to work, and where emotions do not need to be checked at the doorOrganizations where joy and dreaming are part of the parlance of the organizationOrganizations comfortable with the messiness of emotions; as well as with the political dimensions of Feminist Leadership Resources:Kirthi’s LinkedInKirthi’s EmailLeila’s LinkedInArticle by Leila in Medium on how grief in the workplace should be addressed by leaders: HERE'We are Feminist Leaders'  training program on feminist leadership, co-hosted by Leila Billing: HERE Five Oaks Consulting School's Online course on Virtual Team Leadership skillsYoutube video of this podcastClick here to subscribe to be alerted when new podcast episodes come out or when Tosca produces other thought leadership pieces.Or email Tosca at tosca@5oaksconsulting.org if you want to talk about your social