Jon Vegosen: Client-Centric Business Development

Josh Blum & Dr. Andre Caruso: The Importance of Trust: In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Josh Blum, and Dr. Andre Caruso discuss: Mistakes attorneys make that fail to gain trust. Why trust matters and the different dimensions of trust. Ways we can quickly build trust. Making the right first impression. Key Takeaways: People hold how they feel about you higher than how competent you are. You do not always need to be in lawyer mode. Turn off the lawyer speak, be more authentic and human, and you will improve your trust and likeability. Put a little effort into building trust. You need to talk about more than the obvious or the weather. Treat people they way they want to be treated. It is your responsibility to adapt to their communication style to be more trusted. "When you can create some sort of connection with someone, it's going to help build that idea of trust. Even if it is just that subconscious thought of that connection." — Dr. Andre Caruso Find out more about the 10 Easy-to- by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Jen Lee: Innovation in the Legal Industry: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jen Lee discuss: Breaking the mold of traditional legal molds within ethical guidelines. Legal models that are changing the game for attorneys. The growing demand for legal services in underserved communities and non-traditional markets. How COVID changed the legal landscape. Key Takeaways: The billable hour contributes to lawyer burnout and work-life imbalance as attorneys feel pressure to work long hours to pay off high student loans and meet law firm expectations. Some variations for fee models include flat fees, hybrid, unbundled services, subscription models, and passive income (such as a sponsored podcast, a course, a book, etc.). Part of your job as a lawyer is helping your clients accurately understand the costs of your services necessary to solve their problems. Turn off your lawyer brain when thinking about business development. What do you like solving? Build a business model around that. " by BE THAT LAWYER

30 min listen

Tom Dunlap: Scaling Your Law Firm with Business Experts: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Tom Dunlap discuss: Letting go of the old things to promote the new things. The power in relinquishing control. The two paths to scaling. Finding the right fit for your team, clients, and fees. Key Takeaways: Having your name on the door makes you the lightning rod for problems. It is not as big of a benefit as most lawyers think. If viable for your firm, consider bringing in non-lawyer team members who can help with the non-legal aspects of running a firm. You have to find the right fit clients in the right stage in the right scope. If some people don’t say ‘no’ to your fees, you’re charging way too little. "You went to law school to be a lawyer. The highest and best use of your time is the billable hour and getting clients and keeping them happy. If you want to manage a law firm, you should have professionals who work for you doing it." — Tom Dunlap Find out more about the 10 Eas by BE THAT LAWYER

35 min listen

Victoria Collier: Planning for the Future of Your Law Firm: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Victoria Collier discuss: Thinking about your law practice of the future. Selling a book of business versus an actual business. Balancing future needs with your current lifestyle. Key components of having an exit strategy and preparing your firm for sale. Technology that is supporting law firms to run better. Key Takeaways: A solo practice is an asset as a business itself, beyond the goodwill and book of business, when the practice is streamlined and built well. Everyone can build assets into their firm, even if they are a solo firm. Focus more on the net revenue, not the gross revenue, and you’ll be surprised to see how much your firm can grow and thrive. Clients don’t care about the name on the door as much as they just want their problem solved. "Gross revenue is not where the value is, that’s in the net revenue. If you're making decisions based on ‘I want to grow my gross rev by BE THAT LAWYER

35 min listen

Miriam Airington-Fisher: Be the Entrepreneur of Your Law Firm: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Miriam Airington-Fisher discuss: Building your business on your own or under a firm umbrella. Embracing an entrepreneurial mindset. Growing and scaling in different ways. Advice for those lawyers going out on their own. Key Takeaways: You get a higher return when you’re the one that you’re investing in. Even though we are all important in our own ways, we can still delegate to others. You do not need to be the person talking to every single person on every single issue. Take yourself out of the day-to-day equation. You can do that with technology, a small staff, or a large staff. Regardless of your goals, getting out of the whirlwind counts as scaling. There is never a perfect time to pull the trigger. Draw a line in the sand, bet on yourself, and go do it. "When you're an entrepreneur and you're in control, you can you can shape how the business looks." — Miriam Airington-Fis by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Laura Sauter: Personal Branding and Authenticity: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Laura Sauter discuss: What branding really is and what it really means. Personal branding to stand out authentically. Building and protecting your reputation and brand. Reflecting on your personal brand and values to elevate your law practice. Key Takeaways: People hire lawyers, not just law firms. To stand out, you must have your own branding, not just that of the firm. You only know what your brand is when it is reflected to you by those who love you and those who hate you. Dig deep, understand yourself, and be you. That is your biggest differentiator. You don’t need everyone as a customer. You just need the right ones. "No matter what the company, no matter what the size, I'm still going to go through those core values and help those entities, the person or the firm, understand how they are unique within the plethora of offerings out there." — Laura Sauter Take the BE THAT LAWYER chall by BE THAT LAWYER

31 min listen

David Aaronson: Using the Universal Seven Principles for Successful Legal Marketing: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and David Aaronson discuss: Why sales has a bad reputation in the legal industry. Being human before selling. Properly utilizing the Universal Seven Principles of Persuasion. Understanding the emotional decision-making that happens before the intellectual decision-making. Key Takeaways: Sales has changed from hard selling to consultant selling. There is power in social proof and in having authority. What are you doing to build relationships and authority in your area of expertise? Look at what your competitors are doing and be an authority against those competitors. If they are creating lots of content online, you should be as well to compete with them. Do your research on those you want to build relationships with to create unity with something beyond the superficial. "Just because the seven principles are there, doesn't mean they're going to happen naturally, by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Sarah Victory: Building Your Business Through Expert Speaking: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sarah Victory discuss: Building your business without imploding. What to focus on whether you’re running a small or large firm. The biggest problems lawyers face when scaling. Getting business and leads from speaking and presentations. Key Takeaways: Become better in the face of hard challenges. Don’t wish your challenges were easier when you can get stronger. You can find great people, but you have to dare to do it. Do something brave every day to grow your business. Hire somebody before you think you need them. You can also look for people outside of the US and are not constrained by only those in your area. At speaking engagements, connect with people before and after. Network, connect, build relationships, and show your expertise. "I believe there's a form of marketing for everybody. And that usually is something you love to do." — Sarah Victory Take the BE THAT LAWYER chal by BE THAT LAWYER

36 min listen

Robert Friedman: Before there is Marketing, there is Positioning: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Robert Friedman discuss: Focusing on the client and what their needs are, both physical and psychographic. The five questions Robert asks each of his questions. Setting your aperture appropriately. Understanding your positioning and making it work for you. Key Takeaways: When you can position yourself precisely, you won’t attract everyone, but you will attract the right clients to your firm. You have to do both the strategy work and the research work to know that you’re landing in the right space with your branding. If your message is not resonating with your potential referral sources and clients, then workshop it. Ask for feedback and be willing to listen. You don’t want to spin your wheels when a simple change could bring business growth. Focus on what makes you unique and make sure that comes across to your clients and potential clients. "The number one way to different by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Andrew Michaels: Showing Your Best Side: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Andrew Michaels discuss: Matching your branding and headshot to your firm and business goals. Opening the doors to consultation with your headshot. What every lawyer should have in their arsenal of headshots. AI headshots. Key Takeaways: For internal purposes, you should have a friendly-looking headshot. That may not be what you want for your public headshot. Different variations on your headshot can be used for different purposes in your branding, marketing, and social media. A good impression will work for you. But more than that, everyone deserves to have a professional photo of themselves that they love. A headshot is meant to create a human connection. Using AI removes that humanity from the picture. "We talk a lot about judging a book by its cover. You're not supposed to do that, but as human beings, that’s the way that we're wired. It's just science, at this point, that a good impression will by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Niraj Chhabra: Planning for Your Law Firm’s Financial Future: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Niraj Chhabra discuss: How law firm financial planning is different from the average person. Building a relationship on education first with your financial advisor. Avoiding outgrowing your income. Understanding your expenses now to know what you need for the future. Thinking about and planning for long-term care. Key Takeaways: Attorneys need more than just retirement planning, but it is often overlooked. Your savings should increase in proportion to your income and everything else. If you think creatively, there are ways to use time and money to your advantage for the future that isn’t taxed. Everyone considers monthly costs, but many do not consider seasonal budget items like traveling expenses or holiday budgets. "Whether you make $100K per year or $1M per year you have the same limits on how much you can put into your 401K and defer on your taxes. So we got to find creativ by BE THAT LAWYER

33 min listen

Sean Klunder: Standing Out with Law Firm Marketing: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sean Klunder discuss: Why law firms tend to run behind other types of businesses in marketing. Understanding your SEO strategy. Individual lawyer marketing versus law firm marketing. Alignment and consistency in messaging in all areas of your firm. Watch out for fool’s gold to ensure you’re swimming in the blue ocean. Key Takeaways: There is a difference between Marketing and marketing. Without a strategy, it is all just random acts of marketing. Sales patterns have changed over the last few years. People are taking themselves 60-70% through the sales cycle online digitally before ever contacting the law firm. Identify your unique differentiator. Use the three pillars to help identify that: what do you do, who do you help, and what makes you different. Be targeted to who you’re disseminating your message. Where are those targets digitally? Are you also there? "It is really important to hav by BE THAT LAWYER

35 min listen

Pamela DeNeuve: The Importance of Stress Reduction for Lawyers: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Pamela DeNeuve discuss: The importance of empathy, compassion, and a trusted listening ear. Why anxiety, stress, and depression often start in law school. What to do (and not to do) in the morning to have a better day. Overcoming the busyness and stress of being a lawyer. Key Takeaways: 11%, that’s 11 out of 100, lawyers are struggling with suicidal ideation. Please know, there is help out there and you are not alone. The conversation and culture need to change in the legal industry. While resources do exist, in many firms, there has been a stigma to any lawyer taking advantage of mental health resources. You must set yourself up for the next day, and that begins before you leave the office. Select what is going to be done first the following morning then there’s no question about what is going to happen. Do an hour and a half worth of work before you touch the phone or your email by BE THAT LAWYER

33 min listen

Marco Brown: Curating Relationships to Build Referrals and Make It Rain: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Marco Brown discuss: Changing your mindset to overcome limitations placed on you by yourself or your family. Leveraging the knowledge of those who came before you. Learn and implement the sales skills you didn’t learn in law school. Leveraging your attorney referral sources. Key Takeaways: Learn how to sell. Even before you are making it rain, you can turn a potential client into a client through sales and closing. You are not better than sales. As a lawyer, you sell high-level concepts (arguments, negotiations, etc.) every single day. Be aggressive with the sale when you are the right person to help the potential client because you know you can help them solve their problem. Not all referral sources are created equal. Question and qualify potential referral sources to understand how you can help them and they can help you. "Really successful people curate the people by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Ashley Robinson: Law Firm Marketing the Right Way: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Ashley Robinson discuss: Creating a life on purpose. Niching down your business to focus on who you want to work with. Where lawyers need help with putting their marketing money. Understanding what potential clients (and Google) are seeing when they look at your website. Working with your marketing company to know what’s happening now and what the future holds. Key Takeaways: Plan to be present in your relationships and in your business. Marketing isn’t bad, but a lot of nuance and strategy goes into understanding what you need for your firm specifically. You need to understand your goals before you start building your marketing plan. Does your client speak to your greatness? Or does it speak to your client’s pain points? "It's on me to bring you qualified leads, it's on you to be a good lawyer and to convert those leads into clients." — Ashley Robinson Email Steve at Steve@Fretzin.com by BE THAT LAWYER

36 min listen

Scott Simmons: Effective Business Development for Lawyers: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Scott Simmons discuss: Selling and following up without upsetting people. Getting out of the race to the bottom and reframing old ways of thinking. Dueling banjos of business development. The power of “how can I help?” and becoming more than just the lawyer. Key Takeaways: What you’re really competing against is lawyer apathy, not other lawyers. You care more when they are your clients than you do when they are handed to you. There is a huge amount of fun in winning the work. Just start with 30 minutes. If you keep repeating that is going to be huge compared to doing nothing. Be nosy. If it is something or someone that interests you, keep asking questions. People love to talk about themselves and their business. You cannot serve everybody. When you narrow it down, your messaging becomes clear. "AI is just going to keep getting better and better and better. And this idea that lawyer by BE THAT LAWYER

36 min listen

Martin Lopez: The Power of Genuine Curiosity: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Martin Lopez discuss: The three tenets of curiosity. Being interested in the other person. Peeling the onion to understand the other person’s problem. Tips to foster deeper connections between lawyers and clients to improve relationships. Key Takeaways: You’re not building trust when you’re talking at someone. You need to connect with them to build rapport and trust. Nobody asks for a pitch unless they explicitly ask for it, then it’s answering a question. It is not about answering questions, it’s about asking questions. Once you start answering questions you’ve lost control of the meeting if the foundation is not yet built. Take yourself out of the picture so you can better understand and assist your clients with their problems. Tension, frustration, and anxiety arise when needs are not being met. "There's three tenets or three foundations of curiosity: trust, safety, and respect. The more trust by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Nermin Jasani: Planning for Success in Your Law Firm: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Nermin Jasani discuss: Setting and implementing the plan to achieve your goals. Understanding what is realistic for a quarterly goal. Listing out the micro steps and adding them to your calendar for achievable goals. Monitoring your metrics that move the needle forward. Utilizing time and calendars to make your day work for you. Key Takeaways: Give yourself milestones along the way to keep you on track to achieving your goals. The goal with planning is to make sure you aren’t burning yourself out while still making forward progress. Leverage the tools and resources at your fingertips that you’re already using to help make your goals come to fruition. You won’t know where you are unless you track the data. The data gives you accountability and allows you to gamify your goals. "Give 100% of yourself to that one thing. Then when you achieve that, you’re going to feel the motivation, the fue by BE THAT LAWYER

35 min listen

John Scott: Improving Your Law Firm’s Financial Metrics: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and John Scott discuss: Storytelling with the numbers that leads to a logical conclusion. Why spending time in the numbers is key. Dynamic forecasting and cash flow. Four categories of important financial metrics lawyers need to look at to grow their firm. Improving poor billing hygiene. Key Takeaways: If you pay attention to the numbers regularly, you can make necessary course adjustments along the way rather than scramble at the end of the year to make sure everything is fine. Your goals need to be realistic based on your capacity. Set up your goals, even challenge goals, but then you need to look at them and work through how they can be achieved. If you want more rainmakers, you have to train them to be better at what they do. Bring in a non-lawyer finance team to focus on your firm’s finances. Delegate those things that are not your superpower. Let them focus on the numbers and keep you app by BE THAT LAWYER

30 min listen

Marc Halpert: Building Your LinkedIn Profile to Maximize You: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Marc Halpert discuss: How Marc became the LinkedIn expert that he is today. Spending the time to show the world you’re amazinger. The recent and upcoming changes to LinkedIn. Working within the rules of the system you are bound to. Key Takeaways: LinkedIn is always changing, even as we speak. But there are ways to make LinkedIn work for you, even with the changes. Using only your bio on your firm’s website is not enough. Put your personality into your LinkedIn profile and branding. People won’t know how to connect with you if they can’t figure out who you are. People want to read narrative, they don’t want to read your laundry list of skills or dense paragraphs of text. Tell people why, not what. Write all of your profile in first person and present, active tense. People want to be able to relate to you as a peer. Share on LinkedIn when you have something important to say and alwa by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Larry Smith: Becoming an Empathetic Lawyer: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Larry Smith discuss: Why lawyers are challenged to deal with stressors in an empathetic way. Listening and diagnosing the problem before trying to solve the client’s problem. Building trust and relationships with clients. How to handle a client on the ledge and setting expectations. Key Takeaways: Be kind, you never know what other people are going through. Don’t just let clients walk out the door. Set up another appointment and get the last word. Set up the next step and make it easy. Make certain promises that you know you can fulfill. Don’t promise things that are uncertain or outright false. It will destroy trust within the relationship. You have to get your mind right before you can empathetically communicate with a client or team member. Everyone has bad conversations and bad days, but you need to get your mind right. "What I like to do is make certain promises that I absolutely know I can f by BE THAT LAWYER

36 min listen

Doug Bradley: Marketing Your Law Firm the Right Way: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Doug Bradley discuss: Understanding the numbers around marketing. Bootstrap marketing on a limited budget. Laying the groundwork for solid website optimization. Setting expectations and calls to action. Key Takeaways: Having your own book of business gives you power and freedom. Be willing to try and test out options. There is data out there for search terms but you need to know what you’re trying to accomplish. What might not be the right marketing fit for you right now, could be good later down the line. Don’t discount something permanently just because it’s not right now. When working with a marketing professional, make sure they have experience working with others in the area of practice that you are in. "I would not dismiss completely the option of creating a very basic website and linking to it from your social media channels and your directory profiles. That really gets your websi by BE THAT LAWYER

33 min listen

Paul Angelle: Living Your Dynamic Business Plan: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Paul Angelle discuss: Working through the lens of ownership. The biggest opportunity for growth…and the biggest obstacle for growth. Advice to law firm owners to create their business plans. Repetitive problems law firms have with executing their business plan. Key Takeaways: Your goal must be consistent with your why. Share your business goals with your team you will have more consistency with an accountability partner. Spreading the ownership of the business plan will improve your company culture. Make sure the people in your law firm are in the right spot - it may mean moving people around or changing tasks to fit strengths and zones of genius. "Businesses that grow, especially businesses that grow fast and in big numbers, have a plan. They never don’t have a plan." — Paul Angelle Find out more about the Mastering the Legal Clock and Thriving Event at: https://fretzin.com/events Thank by BE THAT LAWYER

36 min listen

Justie Nicol: Building a Culture of Trust and Respect Across Generations: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Justie Nicol discuss: Leading and selling without fear. Building your law firm to support you and your life. Systematizing your training processes and procedures. Running a virtual firm to invest in people over premises. Key Takeaways: There are no bad people, only bad decisions. As a lawyer, your job is to make sure that that bad decision doesn’t wreck the person’s life. Be the best you can be with the years you have with the amazing people you have. Sometimes things change and people move on and that’s okay. Self-care is extremely important for both you, as the leader, and for your team. Finding a way to be flexible and support your team in what they find most important can be culture-defining and still lead to a successful law firm. Check-ins don’t have to be scheduled and formalized. You can have informal meetings to make sure everyone is doing good and all on the sa by BE THAT LAWYER

35 min listen

Tim Lupinacci: Leading with Trust: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Tim Lupinacci discuss: Time management and prioritization. Testing out leadership in smaller groups first. Learning from others to strengthen your leadership skills. Utilizing daily disciplines to support your leadership and your team. Key Takeaways: Get together and pour into people and allow them to pour into you. You’ll build relationships and strengthen all team members. Seeing people in action will allow you to get to know them and see their strengths and personalities. Building your team, and trusting them, will allow you to transition out of the day-to-day work as you release responsibility to them and start focusing more on your zone of genius and your leadership. Don’t neglect your self-care. Checking in with yourself (either alone or with a professional) is vital for leading successfully. "My experience has been when you build that trust, then the pie gets bigger because now you've got multiple by BE THAT LAWYER

33 min listen

Julie Yusim: Building Your Law Practice by Playing the Networking Long Game: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Julie Yusim discuss: Adding a little positive self-talk to your routine. Getting value for your networking time. Going deep and playing the networking long game. Evaluating your wide network to see where you should go deeper. Best tips and tactics for effective networking. Key Takeaways: Networking is about giving, more than anything, especially at the beginning, even if you don’t see how it is going to come back to you. Have a couple of things that you can give in your back pocket, even if you are new to networking. Most networking relationships evolve and mature over time. Get to know those in your smaller circle best, but don’t ignore others in your network. Following up is where the networking really starts. Make notes about the person and conversation you had, then make sure you follow up specifically, not in a blast email selling your services. "The good ne by BE THAT LAWYER

35 min listen

Lisa Katz: Building a Powerful Relationship-Based Book of Business: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Lisa Katz discuss: Starting to build your book of business from early in your career. Providing value to your clients with a network of other service providers. Things you need to know when working with counsel. The playbook for building a book of business. Having the hard conversations to experience the growth. Key Takeaways: Everything is consecutive and cumulative, the more you meet with someone and have great, but shorter conversations, the more impact it will have than one multiple-hour conversation. It’s not about the client, it is about the person behind the relationship you are building. The longer you network and connect, the more you learn and grow and keep the connections that fit you and you fit them. Everybody wins when you’re able to connect and solve each other’s problems or connect them with the person who can. Your internal network at a law firm is just as by BE THAT LAWYER

32 min listen

Andy Hite: Clearing the Head Trash to Be The Change: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Andy Hite discuss: Practicing the change you want to see now. How leadership done right can change the world. Emotional intelligence and its role in leading a team and developing a strong culture. Building a strong culture. Uncovering the stories we tell ourselves, and challenging those stories. Key Takeaways: Do it now. You don’t need to wait to see the changes that you want to see in the world. Try now and make changes every day to be closer to what and who you want to be. Emotional intelligence is the true distinguisher between management and leadership. Leaders do need to manage, but managers don’t need to lead. Cultivating both skills creates impactful organizations. Releasing control will allow you to practice things that will allow you to be an effective leader. You only have so much capacity. Your values need to be more important than revenue. "A business is a macrocosm of indivi by BE THAT LAWYER

32 min listen

Pratik Shah: Taking Your Business Development and Legal Tech to the Next Level: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Pratik Shah discuss: Committing to the process, not just the result, of business development. Tips to develop positive business development habits. Looking out for everyone in your business network. Going deep and wide in the right areas of your network. Key Takeaways: You should have a plan going into your networking event. There is more to it than just showing up and being in the room. Have a committed schedule for progressing your business development routine forward. You can then plan around it if it is on your schedule. Don’t be a professional taker - by helping others you will get so much more out of it. With the way legal tech is developing, you will, eventually, not have a choice to switch or start using it. Don’t be afraid to jump in and start learning to help your clients and your employees. Bring your team in to identify pain points and have someone rev by BE THAT LAWYER

35 min listen

Mary Adkins: Changing Your Mindset About Writing Your Own Book: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Mary Adkins discuss: Why you should consider writing a book today. Building trust as an author. Moving past the things keeping you from following your dream of writing a book. Tips to break down a big project into manageable bites. Key Takeaways: For many people, books are a medium that they enjoy and help them learn and retain information more than a video or audio might do. Books can replace your business card - one will do more for you than the other. Book writing is often less time and less work than people assume it will be. There are increasingly more reasons to self-publish, but there are pros and cons with both traditional publishing and self-publishing. For the first time in 2023, self-publish books are making more than traditionally published books. "A major skill set lawyers have that not a lot of people have is 1) getting their head around massive amounts of inform by BE THAT LAWYER

33 min listen

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Jon Vegosen: Client-Centric Business Development

Jon Vegosen: Client-Centric Business Development

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