Welcome to episode 48 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.



This instalment marks the first time the two presenters have recorded separately, with Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu in Thay’s Sitting Still Hut in Plum Village France, and journalist Jo Confino at the Garrison Institute, New York. 



Speaking from two different continents, they explore fame and humility. What price do we pay for our fame-obsessed societies? Can humility become a great power? How do we show up in the world? What is it ‘to be enough’ in the world? And how did Thay handle fame and other famous people?These dimensions are discussed with help from Buddhist teachings, Thich Nhat Hanh’s practices, and the presenters’ personal life stories, giving us a flavor of experiences of fame, but also the power of humility in service to life.     



Brother Phap Huu further delves into inferiority, superiority, and equality complexes; openness and insight; unconditional presence; humility in learning and being; simplicity; curiosity; Thay’s bodhisattva energy; and honoring blood and spiritual ancestors. And how is Brother Phap Huu coping with… feline fame?



Jo muses about humility in leadership; the power of leading from the middle; responsible journalism; ‘un-cultivating’ fame; looking inwards and outwards with humility; fame as another form of extraction; and more.



The episode ends with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu.







Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/



And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ 



With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ 







List of resources 



The Garrison Institute https://www.garrisoninstitute.org/ 



Dharma Talks: ‘The Power of Understanding – Transformation of Manas’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-power-of-understanding-transformation-of-manas-dharma-talk-by-sr-tue-nghiem-2018-08-02/ 



Dharma Talks: ‘The Face of Manas Revealed: Understanding a Hidden Aspect of Our Consciousness’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/live-dharma-talk-by-sister-tue-nghiem-2020-11-29-plum-village/



Parallax Presshttps://www.parallax.org/ 



The Happy Farmhttps://thehappyfarm.org/ 



The Order of Interbeing (OI)https://orderofinterbeing.org/ 



The International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN)https://www.iucn.org/our-union/iucn-world-conservation-congress 



Plum Village Thailandhttps://plumvillage.org/practice-centre/plum-village-thailand/ 



The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Villagehttps://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village/ 



Dharma Rain, and Being Alone (short teaching video by Thich Nhat Hanh)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYmON_ElwMw 







Quotes



“Humility represents openness for us to enter into a spiritual path or into anything that we want to grow. We need an element of openness, of humility. It means we have to humble our ego. We have to let go of our knowledge. We have to come in with open eyes and open ears and an open mind and an open heart in order to truly allow our understanding to grow deeper.” 



“As human beings, we’re very curious. And when we block off our curiosity, we’re blocking off some deep resonance in us that wants to know more, wants to expand our knowledge and our awareness.”



“Humility is learning to look with fresh eyes, listen with fresh ears, and continuing to expand our hearts and knowing, ‘How can we know everything?’ There’s so much insight and so much wisdom alive around us, not just among the people, among our teachers, among our mentors, among this community – but we also [need to] learn to open ourselves to the environment, to nature.”



“Service is a way of expressing love. Therefore, humility is also an expre