What are the implications of building software that interacts with your customer's customers? Our guest today is Adii Pienaar, previosly the founder of WooCommerce and Conversio. We talk about his five-year journey with Conversio, product lessons learned, how to do freemium right, how to stay ethical, and much more.Podcast feed: subscribe to https://feeds.simplecast.com/4MvgQ73R in your favorite podcast app, and follow us on iTunes, Stitcher, or Google Play Music.Show NotesCM Commerce (previously Conversio) — Adii's latest product, acquired by Campaign MonitorWooCommerce — Adii's previous productUserlist — Jane's productMotion — Adii's poetry bookAdii's personal websiteFollow Adii on Twitter: @adiiToday's SponsorThis episode is brought to you by Lightmatter. Lightmatter helps some of the world’s fastest growing companies design and develop their software applications. Whether you don’t yet need an in-house engineering team, or you’re busy growing the next unicorn and can’t hire fast enough, there’s an immense value in working with a group of experts like Lightmatter. Check them out at lightmatter.com/uibreakfast to learn more.Interested in sponsoring an episode? Learn more here. Leave a ReviewReviews are hugely important because they help new people discover this podcast. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, please leave a review on iTunes. Here's how.