This episode discusses the emergence of ‘counter-West’ groupings and how they fit within – and are seeking to shape – the wider global order. In 2023 we ran a series of episodes focusing on the Russia–China relationship, the growing linkages to Iran and Venezuela and to North Korea's emergence as an international actor, as well as efforts to forge the BRICS association into a larger non-Western organisation. While Western countries continue to stand behind the idea of a comprehensive, rules-based order built upon common norms, laws and institutions, these concepts are being contested by academics, politicians and public figures and are no longer accepted as automatically valid in large parts of the world. Host Neil Melvin is joined by Simon Rynn, Research Fellow for African Security at RUSI, and Dr Philip Shetler-Jones, Senior Research Fellow for Indo-Pacific Security at RUSI, to discuss what can be learnt from ongoing or latent conflicts that appear to pit Western actors and norms against challengers.