This episode of The Lazy CEO Podcast is about determining when it is time, as a Founder, to bring in an outside CEO to run the company. We have a gentleman named Nick Wilkinson. Nick was a CEO that was brought into a company called Binary Tree that one of our members Steven Pivnik had founded, and he was trying to position for sale and upgrade the talent. Nick was the guy he identified and ended up bringing into the company. Nick’s Background Originally from the UK. After graduation from university, Nick spent the first 10 years of his career in the British Royal Air Force. After the Air Force, he joined what was then a pretty small company in the UK called Computer Sciences Corporation, CSC, which Nick subsequently spent the next 20, almost 25 years rising through the ranks of CSC from a consultant all the way through for various account management roles to ending up as a direct report to the CEO in, at that time was like a hundred thousand people company with 16 billion in revenue. With a great career in the UK. he was lucky enough to do some interesting jobs, which brought him to the States. He also lived in Australia for a few years and really assimilated a huge amount of knowledge and expertise on how to run large-scale organizations. Back in the early 2010s he was the CEO of a private equity-backed company backed by Bear Capital which was also in the IT services area. And that company and Steven’s company oftentimes coexisted with clients. They didn't do the same thing, but they did, provided complimentary services.  Here is more of the conversation between Jim Schleckser, CEO of The CEO Project, and Nick Wilkinson. What was the size of the company, the training company, and the IT space prior to coming to Binary Tree? The private equity company was mid-market. It was of comparable size to Binary Tree. I made a decision when I left the large corporate world that I didn't want to go and do the same thing again, I wanted a change. I wanted to have more direct visibility of what I was doing and how it affected the business. I wanted to be a CEO. And I decided that I wanted to try that in a different financial structure, a different capital structure. And that's what led me into the private equity world. An important component of being able to step in as a CEO for a Founder is rolling your sleeves up and not needing somebody to do everything for you. In the founder-owned company, there aren't a whole host of staffers and people to do things for you.  A lot of entrepreneurs get dazzled by the resume. They see your big career and think, this guy's brilliant, but then they bring that individual in, and they can't do the big to small translation. You obviously made the transition successfully, but what would you characterize as the differences? Most people can't make that transition. You did. What were the differences and why were you able to do it where maybe others might not be able to? A big part of it is personality. And I'm trying to answer the question without blowing smoke in my own direction. You've got to be reasonably self-effacing and modest, the servant leadership things. I know what it felt like to be at this level, and then a mid-manager and the senior manager and management. I had walked a mile in other people's shoes, and I was always willing to empathize with them and try and see things from their perspective. I've always been someone who's espoused lifelong learning. In addition, the founder must have a certain willingness to change and to listen, but at the same time a clear sense of what it needed to be successful in his or her company. That chemistry is important. If I was trying to figure out if somebody had the right profile or didn't, what would you recommend as the two or three questions to figure out if they've got the profile with you? If you were faced with a new opportunity with a big customer because a CEO must be capable of going out and meeting with customers, what do you do? How do