Little Fires Everywhere & Celeste Ng: Complicated Dueling Matriarchs**The Matriarchs — Mrs. Richardson and Mia Warren — could not be more opposite, one lives by her rules and regulations and the other is a free spirited artist living a nomadic life. (Starts at :40). **Carinn relates to both of them and how they made her analyze the difference between power and control while Kate admits (sadly) she relates to Mrs. Richardson’s need to for order. (9:38) **Are they complicated? Kate is frustrated by the lack of inner conflict and growth, but Carinn sees small changes and reflections that are significant given Mrs. Richardson's starting point. In the end, Kate did not feel either matriarch was that complicated but Carinn is focused on all the conflict and change in the story as a whole, something bigger than these two women. (17:07)**The Adoption Mess— the matriarchs, along with the entire town, takes sides between Bebe Chow and Mrs. McCullough. We weigh in on where we think the baby belongs. (34:25)**Scenes: Mia and Izzy’s connection ignites (45:17); Pearl falls under the spell of the Richardson’s and Kate and Carinn get heated over Pearl and her relationships with Tripp and Moody (49:25)**Mrs. Richardson calls out Mia Warren and Mia comes back swinging—we can’t wait to see Reese Witherspoon and Kerry Washington bring this to life in the TV adaptation (58:18)**The ending leaves Kate wanting more, but Carinn feels like it perfectly suits the story (1:04:48)**What She Said (1:10:44). Carinn is an enormous fan of Celeste Ng and shares the fascinating backstory of her connection with fire. (1:13:20) Kate loves her 2008 essay in defense of fiction. (1:16:40) **Crystal Ball. Carinn went with more drama while Kate wanted a love story. Kate envisions Mia finding Joseph Ryan (Pearl's biological father) and falling in love with. Carinn had Pearl finding her father, realizing the life she could have had and turning against her mother. (1:22:27)**Takeaways. Kate takes away how important it is when writing for characters to experience deeply and to grow in such a way that readers can feel that too. Carinn’s takeaway retells a story about Celeste's father, his job and explosions. (1:27:48)Stay Complicated!Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @popfictionwomen and on Twitter @pop_women. To do a full deep dive, check out our website at www.popfictionwomen.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.