Dolly Chugh is a psychologist and professor at the Stern School of Business at NYU. She studies how—and why—most of us, however well-intended, are still prone to race and gender bias, as well as what she calls “bounded ethicality,” which are the systemic, unethical behaviors we engage in without awareness. For example, Chugh believes that being an ally isn’t about being a “good” person—and that our singular focus on goodness is a big part of the problem. Instead, she says, we should be constantly striving to be good-ish, i.e. someone who is always growing—that involves messing up, owning the mistake, learning from it, and trying again. Chugh brilliantly tackles this topic in her book The Person You Were Meant to Be. Today, she explains to host Elise Loehnen what we can and must do about it. (For more, see The goop Podcast hub.)