This episode features a conversation with game designer, Matt Leacock. It was recorded in January 2024.Matt is best known as a designer of cooperative games, including Pandemic, Pandemic Legacy, Forbidden Island, and Daybreak. Pandemic, first published in 2008, has sold over 5 million copies worldwide and is available in over 30 languages. Matt’s latest game, Daybreak challenges players to stop climate change. Amongst other things, Matt and I discussed the role of play in learning, the ways that games can help people understand and model complexity, and how increased interactivity can deepen audience engagement on climate issues.Photo by Owen Duffy.Additional links: Daybreak websiteDaybreak gameplay videoMatt Leacock websiteWashington Post climate warming guessing game