Kia ora Whanau. This week, Eugene and Matt have the pleasure of speaking to Jason Koop, the Director of Coaching for Carmichael Training Systems. Jason is one of the premiere coaches in the ultramaraton world, and has coached many professional athletes to high levels of success within the sport. Koop’s roster has included such names as Kaci Lickteig, Dylan Bowman, Mike Foote, Timothy Olson, Jen Benna, Larisa Dannis, Dakota Jones, Missy Gosney, Alex Varner, Ford Smith...Gosh, the list goes on. Jason is known for his ability to convey quantitative data into a qualitative framework, which is especially important when working with athletes that may very quickly get into the weeds when the raw data and technical terms are rolled out (Stand up, Matt Rayment). Jason got his start coaching youth in track whilst himself a teen. Jason not only talks the talk, his personal ultrarunning resume includes two top-10 finishes at the Leadville Trail 100 Run and finishes at some of ultrarunning’s most formidable events, including the Western States Endurance Run, the Badwater 135, the Wasatch 100, and the Hardrock 100. Currently Jason is preparing for Tor de Geants, a 330-plus kilometre self-supported race in Italy’s Aosta Valley. In this conversation we discuss Koop’s upcoming TDG attempt, Relative Perceived Effort, The Hierarchy of Needs for Ultramarathon Runners and the joy of running with dogs. We coined the term “Rigby Perceived Effort” and also discuss food, cycling, and why the state of mental grit is as important as cardiovascular health. As well as Jason’s excellent conversation, this episode sees Matt and Eugene excitedly back together behind the mic, wondering, after two weeks of tours and live shows, why there is no applause. We have all the regular goodness, Stuff You Should Know, Greatest Run Ever and Queen Ruth Croft’s continued domination of Europe. Enjoy!!!!!!!!