My guest this ep is Stefan Morales, producer of the Working Together podcast. Stefan and I both care about food and farming. I brought my passions to farming; he took his into the non-profit and government sphere. We compare notes, things get mildly awkward, and a farmer's heart grows by a couple of sizes. Or: a guy with good insights about the workings of bureaucracy offers advice for reformers about how to engage with it. Episode Sponsor: Dubois Agrinovation