How do we know that laws and rules are effective? On this episode, I'm returning to the field of Behavioural Law. It's something I've explored in previous episodes with academics (links below), but this time I'm joined by a practitioner who works in a law firm and whose job is to think about the behavioural dynamics of law.The idea behind Behavioural Law is that since we right laws and rules in order to influence human behaviour, it makes sense to explore whether or not the laws and rules have the desired effect. Because if they don’t, then what’s the point in having them? And if we’ve got ineffective laws, then we’re not mitigating human risk.My guest is Nitish Upadhyaya, who is a behavioural scientist who is also a lawyer. He works for Ropes & Gray, a law firm that has a behavioural insights laboratory run by Nitish, which explores the intersection of behavioural science and law. To find out more about:Nitish - https://www.ropesgray.com/en/biographies/u/nitish-upadhyayaHis work at R&G Insights Lab - https://www.ropesgray.com/en/RGInsightsLabThe R&G ‘Better Way?’ Podcast - https://www.ropesgray.com/en/rginsightslab/better-wayTo learn more about and read sample chapters from my book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ - www.humanizingrules.comPrevious episodes of the show on Behavioural Law include:Professor Yuval Feldman on why we should write rules for good people not bad peopleProfessor J S Nelson on What Everyone Needs To Know About Business EthicsProfessor Yuval Feldman on Trust & Voluntary ComplianceProfessor Benjamin van Rooij on COVID ComplianceProfessor Benjamin van Rooij on The Behavioural CodeProfessors Benjamin van Rooij & Danny Sokol on Compliance 2.0Professors Melissa Rorie & Benjamin van Rooij on Measuring Compliance