A lot of people use the word Zen as an adjective to describe the meditative calm and peace they feel in the moment, never realizing that it takes decades of work and practice to truly become a master of it.If you’ve been curious about what Zen really means as a practice, you’ll enjoy this week’s meditative Living 4D conversation as Paul welcomes Ann Pirrucello, a longtime professor of philosophy at the University of San Diego and a Roshi (old teacher/old master).Learn more about Anne at the Vista Zen Center and Creative Surf Photography La Jolla. Find her on social media via Instagram.TimestampsThe very early influences by Carl Jung and Simone Weil that led Ann to meditation. (3:32)Ann’s long/not so long journey to becoming a Roshi. (10:19)What Zen training looks like. (22:28)Zen and the use of plant medicines. (31:53)Is Zen a religion or a philosophy? (38:15)One of the best things a Zen teacher can do for you. (54:23)Cultivating non-dual wisdom. (1:02:27)Zen’s interesting relationship with language. (1:18:17)Zen can be destabilizing and not always the right practice for you. (1:26:38)Emptiness = supreme fullness. (1:32:19)Mindfulness: Not a Zen practice. (1:48:40)If you believe practicing Zen can give you special powers, you’re missing the mark. (1:59:50)Seeing things from the side of equality to manage fear in a rapidly changing world. (2:05:00)A Zen koan. (2:09:23)The gentle physicality behind a Zen practice. (2:25:10)Using the keisaku. (2:37:21)“Find your feet.” (2:41:23)ResourcesDokusan or private interviewThe Book of Equanimity: Illuminating Classic Zen Koans by Gerry Shishin Wick and Bernie GlassmanTracking Bodhidharma: A Journey to the Heart of Chinese Culture by Andy FergusonThe Tibetan Book of Living and Dying by Sogyal RinpocheMahayana BuddhismFour Foundations of MindfulnessThe five hinderancesFind more resources for this episode on our website. Thanks to our awesome sponsors: CHEK Institute/PT3.0 Paleovalley chek15 BiOptimizers PAUL10 Cymbiotika L4D15 Organifi CHEK20We may earn commissions from qualifying purchases using affiliate links.