In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by Rockie Brockway.  Rockie is currently the Practice Lead for the Office of the CSO for TrustedSec. With over 28 years' experience in information security and business risk, Rockie specializes in Business Risk Analysis and the inherent relationships between data, assets, adversaries, and the organization’s brand value. He provides strategic and tactical advisory services to TrustedSec’s clients, assisting them in maturing their organizations’ security programs.  00:00 – Intro  Social-Engineer.com  Social-Engineer.org  InnocentLivesFoundation.org  SE Vishing Service  SE Phishing Service  Social-Engineer Slack Channel  Pro-Rock.com  Breaking Security Awareness Virtual Conference by Living Security – Chris will appear June 24  03:35 – Rockie Brockway Intro  https://www.trustedsec.com/team/rockie-brockway/  https://www.linkedin.com/in/rockie-brockway-6416349/  https://bsidescleveland.com  07:25 – A little about Rockie’s background and how he got started in the industry  10:35 – Rockie's feelings on the past 29 years, from the first virus he saw vs what we see now  12:35 – Rockie was in a math rock band called Craw, Rockie played shows with CLUTCH!!!   17:15 – What should I have or learn to get a job in a company like yours?  20:55 -  Practical Social Engineering certification  21:52 – How do you take curious and knowledgeable people’s knowledge and bridge that gap between them and the decision makers?  23:43 – How can young people get the qualities you suggest?  25:20 – Never be afraid of failure  27:45 – How important is top-down leadership support, or what are the most important aspects of doing your job?  31:25 – Are there more or less “future thinking” proactive security concerns than there were years ago?  36:02 – What level of organizations are bringing you in for your assistance?  37:28 – Action steps for corporations to start doing now  Outro  40:42 – Colleagues you respect most in the industry  Dr Peter Tippett  Marty from Snort  Renaud from Nessus  Dave Kennedy and TrustedSec GitHub  Jack Jones - Factory Analysis Information Risk  B Sides Jack Daniel, Nickerson, Ian Emit  42:45 – Book recommendations  Learning from the Octopus  Emergence  Tribe – Sebastian Younger  The Martian – Andy Weir   Artemis    44:33 – How to contact Rockie  Twitter @rockiebrockway  Twitter @bsidescleveland  Rockie Brockway on Linkedin  TrustedSec.com