In this episode, Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall are joined by industry professional, Julie Rinehart. Julie has spent the last 10 years building and enhancing Fortune 500 enterprise Security Awareness programs. Listen as they discuss using empathy to improve security awareness and the flaws in the “stupid user” philosophy.    00:10 – Intro  Phishing as a Service (PHaaS)  Vishing as a Service (VaaS)  Social Engineering Risk Assesment (SERA)  SEVillage: The Human Hacking Conference  Social-Engineer.com  01:56 – Introduction to Julie Rinehart  02:28 – How Julie got into the industry  06:21 – Dismantling the “stupid user” philosophy  07:53 – How to interview your employer  10:34 – The biggest milestones in Julie’s career  14:31 – How you can encourage users to report the phish they clicked on  19:22– What we can learn from “people who try to do the right thing and then mess up”  25:25 – The benefits of making security personal  28:34 – Julie's biggest challenges in the industry  30:28 – Increase security awareness using gamification  35:13 – Julie's mentors and most respected colleagues  38:54 - Julie’s podcast recommendations  Armchair Expert   (Episode 248 – David Farrier)  The CyberWire  Darknet Diaries  43:52 – Outro  Ryan on Twitter  Chris on Twitter  Social-Engineer on Twitter  Social-Engineer.org  Social-Engineer.com  SEVillage: The Human Hacking Conference  Human Hacking Book  The Innocent Lives Foundation    Clutch