Building Bridges Between Spirit-filled Christians and Latter-day Saints (Mormons): A Translation Guide for Born Again Spirit-filled Christians (Charismatics / Pentecostals / Renewalists and Third Wavers) and Latter-day Saints

By Rob Datsko and Kathy Datsko

BUILDING BRIDGES

between

SPIRIT-FILLED CHRISTIANS

and

LATTER-DAY SAINTS (MORMONS)

A Translation Guide for

BORN AGAIN SPIRIT-FILLED CHRISTIANS

(Charismatics/Pentecostals/Renewalists and Third Wavers)

and

LATTER-DAY SAINTS

• Language: English
• Publisher: eBookIt.com
• Release date: Apr 26, 2016
• ISBN: 9781456606695

Book preview

1983

Part One: The Basics

Preface: The Language Barrier

I ain’t never going back there! Depending on differing grammatical understandings, my Tennessee friend had either emphatically stated that:

(1) He was never going there again, or

(2) He was planning on going back.

Both of us spoke the same native tongue. Both of us understood each individual word spoken. But if I had been unaware of the differences in our cultural grammar, I would have understood him to be stating the opposite of what he actually meant. So it often is between Latter-day Saints (Mormons) and Spirit-filled Christians. Often the same words may be used, but with different and sometimes even opposite meanings for each group. Although these groups may share the same native mother tongue, Spirit-filled Christians and Latter-day Saints across the world speak a different spiritual language, sometimes expressing their beliefs in phrases that have totally different meanings to those of the other group. Despite minor belief differences within Spirit-filled Christians’ many types of churches across the world, they all speak basically the same spiritual language, which language can be quite different from that of many Latter-day Saints. To be able to communicate between the two groups, a basic understanding of the different thought processes and phraseology is important. Across the world, Spirit-filled Christians have their own unique spiritual vocabulary and cultural thought patterns, as do Latter-day Saints.

Unfortunately, since the language barrier is so great, there’s a compounded problem when trying to translate. When Latter-day Saint beliefs are explained in terms generally understood by Spirit-filled Christians, Latter-day Saints may feel their beliefs are being misrepresented, and may become offended. Likewise, when beliefs of Spirit-filled Christians are explained in terms that Latter-day Saints would understand, Spirit-filled Christians can become angry and upset, often feeling their beliefs are being ‘dumbed down’ and ridiculed. Our prayer is that instead of becoming offended or angry, each group will choose to press forward in "agape" love (the pure love of Christ), and begin to build better bridges of communication. May we all keep in the forefront of our minds 1 John 4:7-11:

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. (The Holy Bible, New King James Version, copyright 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.)

For the remainder of this Guide, unless otherwise indicated, we have chosen to use the Old King James Version, as that is the version accepted as canon scripture by Latter-day Saints. However, in quoting scripture, the pronouns (He, His, etc.) will be capitalized to indicate Deity (God), as Spirit-filled Christians are accustomed to having this in all their scriptures, even in the Old King James Version.

Also, when quoting LDS scriptures, we will present them in a way that Spirit-filled Christians would be able to recognize as LDS canon. For example, the 4th Article of Faith would be written as follows:

We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Articles of Faith 1:4)

This Guide in itself is an anomaly. Because all Latter-day Saints profess to believe in continuing (progressive) revelation, and Spirit-filled Christians also believe in unfolding revelation (that God continues to reveal truths about Himself), it seems presumptuous to attempt to define the various terms and beliefs. This book is only to be a springboard to help highlight major beliefs and cultural understandings. Generalizing can be used as a helpful tool for building bridges, which is our goal in writing this book. Obviously, we, as Christians, must ask each other to explain our individual beliefs. We must give opportunity to bear testimony to one another.

Both Spirit-filled Christians and Latter-day Saints believe that as disciples of Jesus Christ, they have the privilege and responsibility to share with everyone in the world the blessings that have come because of Jesus Christ, His supreme sacrifice at Calvary (the Atonement), and His resurrection from the dead. Both groups feel that because of the great love of Christ, there are things of value that can be a blessing in others’ lives. Both groups feel they have something to offer that they perceive as glaringly missing in the other group. We cannot say this strongly enough. Latter-day Saints believe they have great truths that they see are missing in the lives of Spirit-filled Christians. Likewise, Spirit-filled Christians believe they have great truths that they see are missing in the lives of Latter-day Saints. Both groups long to share these truths that they see as lacking, so that the others can have the fullness of God’s blessings in their lives. Both feel that plain and precious truths have been taken out of the pure Gospel, and that philosophies and traditions of man have been mingled with scripture, so that the other group has been hindered from receiving all that they could receive from the Lord. This book is based upon this premise.

The goal of this book is to highlight problem areas and provide tools so that miscommunication can be overcome between Spirit-filled Christians and Latter-day Saints. When we all can recognize and overcome the language and cultural barriers between these two groups, true Christ-honoring communication can occur. Only then can the pure love of Christ (agape love) and sweet fellowship in Christ prevail.

Another goal of this Guide is to let the pure truth of the Gospel shine forth so that all can partake of it. Therefore, we feel it is necessary to shine the spotlight on those aspects of our religious expressions and traditions that are more cultural than pure Gospel. We will refer to these as sacred cows. This is a cultural term widely used in Spirit-filled Christian religious circles. Our intention here is not to offend others. There’s nothing inherently wrong with having a cow. But whenever any group takes their favorite cow, and elevates it to a level equal to the Gospel, problems occur. First, there’s always the problem of idolatry. Second, sacred cows consume spiritual food that should have been available for hungry people. Those who are starving are then unable to partake and be nourished by God’s word. And third, sacred cows trample the ground, making it hardened, inhibiting harvests for future generations. Ignoring sacred cows does more harm than good. Therefore, we have made a calculated choice to shine the light on these sacred cows, which are cultural traditions that may cause others to stumble. If something is a sacred cow, it should be recognized as such, and dealt with. If it is truly an integral part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it will give life, and is therefore not a sacred cow.

Throughout this Guide, to help clarify LDS beliefs, we will refer to the LDS Bible Dictionary and True to the Faith; a Gospel Reference. These are both considered by LDS to be authoritative sources. True to the Faith is designed as a companion to your study of the scriptures and the teachings of latter-day prophets. The Bible Dictionary is included with the LDS scriptures. Both are published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

May the Holy Spirit guide and unfold revelation to each person who reads these pages, we pray, in the Name of Jesus Christ our Lord.

Chapter One: What’s a Spirit-filled Christian?What’s a Latter-day Saint?   

or

Who Are These People?

Latter-day Saints (as they prefer to be called) are more commonly known as Mormons. When a Latter-day Saint authorized priesthood holder baptizes and confirms someone as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that person is considered to be a Latter-day Saint. Even if inactive, one is always considered a member of the Church. At the end of December 2010, there were over 14 million members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

‘Spirit-filled Christians,’ on the other hand, is the term we have chosen to use in this book to describe born again, Pentecostal / Charismatic / Renewalist / Third Wave Christians. Church historian Vinson Synan (states) the charismatic expression of Christianity, which dates back to 1905, now can claim 640 million adherents worldwide, making the charismatic-Pentecostal expression of the Christian faith the fastest-growing in the world (Charisma magazine, May 2010 pg 40). They (Pentecostal/ charismatics) are growing by more than 19 million a year, some 54,000 per day (Charisma, November 2011, pg. 39).

In this Guide, the term Spirit-filled Christian describes this fast-growing group within Christendom. Spirit-filled Christians attend many types of churches, including Protestant, Catholic, Greek Orthodox and non-denominational. These are believers who have made a personal decision to repent of their sins and place their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Spirit-filled Christians have experienced an infilling of the Holy Spirit, and are actively engaged in trying to fulfill the Great Commission to Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel to every creature (Mark 16:15).

Oral Roberts University President Mark Rutland has stated that many young Christians are welcoming of the move of the Holy Spirit but don’t identify with a particular label; They see themselves as Spirit-filled Christians (Charisma, March 2010 pg. 25). Researchers predict by 2025 there will be more than 1 billion Pentecostals and charismatics (i.e. renewalists/Spirit-filled Christians) in the world, most located in Asia, Africa and Latin America (Charisma, November 2011 pg. 39). Across the world, the term renewalist is also used to describe these Spirit-filled Christians. According to the World Christian Database, there are almost 80 million ‘renewalists’ in the United States, which would include Pentecostals, charismatics and neo-charismatics, often referred to the Third Wavers (Charisma, November 2011 pg. 30). Several Christian demographics experts have estimated that 25 percent of the world’s Christians are renewalist (Hannah Elliott, Associated Baptist Press, October 9, 2006). Researcher and missiologist David Barrett has said that Pentecostalism is the preferred religious expression of a quarter of the world’s 2 billion Christians, and is the most successful social movement of the past century (Charisma, November 2011, pg. 66).

The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life completed a ten nation study released October 5, 2006 which highlighted the growth and influence of Charismatic/ Pentecostal/ Renewalist Christians within the United States, Brazil, Chile, Guatemala, Kenya, Nigeria, South Africa, India, the Philippines and South Korea. In every nation surveyed except for India, at least 10% of the population is renewalist. Five percent of India’s population is renewalist. Close to 50% of the population in Brazil, Guatemala and Kenya is renewalist. In Brazil, Chile, Guatemala, Kenya and the Philippines, more than two-thirds of Protestants are either Pentecostal or charismatic (a.k.a. renewalist). The survey noted that growing numbers of Roman Catholics and Protestants in non-Pentecostal denominations define their faith in renewalist terms. Luis Lugo, director of the Pew Forum stated, It’s not an overstatement to suggest that renewalist movements are reshaping Christianity throughout the world (Charisma, March 2010).

The wave (of renewal) started in 1906 with the Azuza Street revival, continued throughout the first half of the 20th century and expanded beyond non-Pentecostal groups with Episcopal priest Dennis Bennett’s announcement on Passion Sunday in 1960 that he’d received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Fifteen years later … the height of this newfound movement was impacting every denomination and part of the body of Christ (Charisma, August 2010 pg. 60). Research has shown that these Spirit-filled Christians come from 9,000 ethnolinguistic cultures and speak more than 8,000 languages (Charisma, November 2011, pg. 64).

Researchers and expert historians have still not yet agreed upon a universal term to describe this group of born again Spirit-filled Christians. They often interchange the terms used to describe these believers, using the words: Pentecostal / Charismatic / Renewalist / Third Wave / and the River.

Throughout this Guide, in an effort to simplify, LDS will be used to refer to Latter-day Saints. SFC will be used to refer to these born again Spirit-filled Christians. SFC is a term invented by the authors for ease of use in defining this large group of Christian believers who attend many different types of churches. Those who are not familiar with this Guide will not recognize the term "SFC."

Although there is an incredible language and culture barrier between LDS and SFC, often these two groups believe many of the same basic doctrines, but express their beliefs with phrases that have totally different meanings, depending upon whether ‘Mormonese’ or ‘Spirit-filled Christian lingo’ is spoken. This book is sent forth with the prayer that the contents can be a tool to help both LDS and SFC express what is truly in their hearts, without the impediment of misunderstandings due to word usage.

This book is also written, based upon the premise that Spirit-filled Christians and Latter-day Saints share far more in common in their deeply held beliefs than has been previously recognized. The misunderstandings between these two groups of Christians are due to the language and cultural barriers which have prevented these two groups from effectively communicating with each other about sacred things.

A note to our Spirit-filled Christian brothers and sisters in the Lord:

When trying to share spiritual things with Latter-day Saints, very often Spirit-filled Christians will make two major mistakes which slam the door shut on any chance to communicate. The first mistake is in not understanding how much LDS members value ‘the Spirit’ of meekness, gentleness, love and peace. If the conversation becomes even the least bit contentious, LDS members will assume that the Spirit (the Holy Spirit) is not welcome, and will often leave. They believe that Satan pressures and coerces people, but that God speaks in a still, small voice, and that His servants should as well. This is a huge issue for Latter-day Saints. They will perceive even a hint of contention to be an indication that the Holy Spirit is being maligned and excluded, and that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ want them to remove themselves from the conversation.

The second mistake is that Spirit-filled Christians often have the tendency to feel the need to be informed about LDS beliefs, and will read what many consider to be authoritative sources on the tenets of Mormonism. Unfortunately, some of these sources contain information which is not correct. SFC will then tell their LDS friends what Mormons believe, instead of inviting them to discuss their beliefs. This is perceived by the LDS community as perpetuating lies about their beliefs. Therefore, LDS members believe that the (Holy) Spirit has been grieved, and has therefore departed. Since He has departed, then so should they.

A critical key for Spirit-filled Christians is to decide within their hearts the true purpose of sharing spiritual ideas with their LDS friends. Is the true purpose to encourage them to better understand the awesome price that Jesus Christ paid for all of us so that we can be forgiven of our sins and be cleansed, and live with Him in heaven forever? Is the end goal to help our Mormon friends be born again and develop a personal relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ, entering into the realms of Holy Ghost anointed and sanctified praise and worship? Is the purpose to help set them free from a religion of bondage to rules and traditions of man, and introduce them to the manifest presence of the Living God and the power of the Holy Spirit? Is the goal to help them find joy in the Lord? If this is the case, then we can trust God to handle any theological changes that He may want to occur in their (or our) lives.

If the purpose is to help Latter-day Saints to become born again, to gain the assurance of their salvation and to develop a deep personal relationship with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, the message must be presented in love, peace and gentleness with absolutely no pressure. This is the only type of conversation where a LDS member feels the Holy Spirit is welcomed, and therefore truth can be conveyed.

A note to our Latter-day Saint brothers and sisters in the Lord:

Latter-day Saints rarely understand the depths of the language barrier between themselves and their Spirit-filled Christian friends. Too often, they dismiss the language problem, and state that doctrinal differences are the root of the rift between the two groups. Yet as a born again Spirit-filled Christian, I (Kathy) would never have been able to come into the Church without the blessing of the gift of tongues, given by the Holy Spirit twenty-two years before I was baptized as a Latter-day Saint. This is because I constantly heard Latter-day Saints state things (using their spiritual language) that I knew were blasphemous (according to my translation of those words in SFC language). Even nine years after my LDS baptism, I still regularly pray in tongues, to be able to effectively translate and understand what my LDS friends are trying to communicate.

A note to both SFC and LDS:

We firmly believe that most, if not all, barriers are caused by language/communication differences, not by doctrinal differences. For example, if Latter-day Saints say that they do not believe in the Trinity, Spirit-filled Christians will be shocked and wonder, Which Person of the Godhead do Mormons not believe in? Or if Mormons state that immortality has been given to all human beings, Spirit-filled Christians will wonder how anyone could believe that God’s perfect plan is for unrepentant and hardened sinners to rule and reign with Christ forever in the eternities? When Latter-day Saints talk about becoming a god, Spirit-filled Christians wonder why anyone would want to usurp our Heavenly Father’s rule. And when Latter-day Saints talk about the importance of obedience and works or being worthy, Spirit-filled Christians think LDS are stating that faith is not essential, and that Christ’s Atonement is of minimal value.

When Spirit-filled Christians talk about being saved by grace, LDS wonder how anyone could so disrespect Christ’s Atonement to think that we don’t need to pray and respond to His offer of forgiveness. They think SFC are saying that obedience is not necessary. When SFC talk about having the assurance of our salvation, LDS think they are not recognizing how all human beings are subject to sin, and how the blessed Atonement of Christ must be applied daily to each of our lives. When Spirit-filled Christians try to share about blessings of intimate worship (see Part 2: Worship), LDS may think they are ignoring Christ’s commandments to help our fellow human beings.

A study in the LDS Bible Dictionary of the difference between the Light of Christ and the Holy Ghost may help us understand our Spirit-filled Christian friends. "The light of Christ should not be confused with the personage of the Holy Ghost, for the light of Christ is not a personage at all. There are two different ways the Holy Ghost is manifested to men on earth; both as the power of the Holy Ghost and as the gift of the Holy Ghost." Often Latter-day Saints and Spirit-filled Christians have not clearly distinguished between these four separate things:

1) The Light of Christ , which is given to all men and is not a Person (Personage). The light of Christ is related to man’s conscience and tells him right from wrong. (LDS Bible Dictionary , pg. 725). Many Spirit-filled Christians would consider the LDS concept of the Light of Christ to be a person’s conscience (see Part Two: Light of Christ).

2) The Person of the Holy Spirit. Although He has no physical body, He does have His own unique personality and ministry. This includes the perceived (felt) nearness of the presence of the Holy Spirit Himself. The experience of regularly feeling the subtle presence of the Holy Spirit is cherished in the lives of both Spirit-filled Christians and Latter-day Saints (see Part Two: Holy Spirit).

3) The Power of the Holy Spirit, which is strongly felt, and can come mightily upon all men. The power of the Holy Spirit will come and go, depending on the situation. This mighty feeling is also felt by both Latter-day Saints and Spirit-filled Christians alike (see Part Two: Holy Spirit).

4) The LDS priesthood Gift of the Holy Spirit, which is given only through laying on of hands by the authorized LDS priesthood. Of course, He is the same Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) that is regularly experienced by both Spirit-filled Christians and Latter-day Saints alike. However, with the LDS Gift of the Holy Spirit, because of the covenant, the Spirit (Holy Spirit) is able to go deeper and higher, and remain with a person, to never leave them, as long as they continue to walk in faith and try to live a life of integrity (worthiness). The LDS priesthood Gift of the Holy Spirit is much like having a marriage covenant. There is no temporal difference in a man and woman the day before their wedding, and the day after their wedding. They are still the same people. But the covenant makes all the difference in their lives. The husband and wife feel that covenant difference. They experience a covering, as long as the other also continues to honor their covenant. LDS deeply feel this priesthood covenant Gift of the Holy Spirit. It is different from the Light of Christ , the Person of the Holy Spirit and the Power of the Holy Spirit (see Part Two: Holy Spirit).

Latter-day Saints may forget that many people (both ancient and modern) have experienced the Light of Christ, as well as both the nearness of the Person of the Holy Spirit and the power of the Holy Spirit. Spirit-filled Christians regularly cherish their experience with both the Person of the Holy Spirit and the power of the Holy Spirit. Of course, because they are not members of the LDS Church, SFC do not experience the LDS priesthood Gift of the Holy Spirit. These concepts are dealt with in greater detail in Chapter Three.

Besides the language barrier, there are some basic differences in mindset and thought patterns between Spirit-filled Christians and Latter-day Saints. Three of the most prevalent differences in viewpoint are:

(1) Each group has its own church traditions and beliefs regarding the best ways to invite and encourage the presence of the Holy Spirit. Because He (the Spirit) will always come when honorably and sincerely invited in the name of Jesus, each group has experienced Him within the ways their church traditionally teaches and operates. By stepping outside our comfort zones, and by being willing to look beyond our personal favorite and comfortable traditions, each of us can experience the Holy Spirit in ever expanding ways. As we choose to love, to exercise faith and to trust in Him to lead us, incredible glories will be opened up to us. God has so much more for us beyond the familiar traditions of our forefathers (see Part Two: Holy Spirit).

(2) Latter-day Saints cannot imagine the Celestial Kingdom (Kingdom of Heaven) without the Priesthood and without families. Spirit-filled Christians cannot imagine the Kingdom of Heaven (Celestial Kingdom) without Holy Spirit anointed, consecrated and consummated praise and worship, and without a King. Neither of these viewpoints excludes the other. The focus of the respective groups will reflect their particular viewpoint.

(3) Spirit-filled Christians tend to focus more on the concept of the power of the Holy Spirit coming upon an individual (Acts 1:8). Latter-day Saints focus more on a believer in Christ allowing the Holy Spirit to flow out of them (John 7:38). The result is that Spirit-filled Christians tend to talk more about God’s part in the process of sanctification, whereas Latter-day Saints tend to talk more about the individual’s part in the same process. Neither of these viewpoints excludes the other. Latter-day Saints tend to focus more upon an individual’s choice to submit to and obey God’s revealed will (commandments), while Spirit-filled Christians focus more upon yielding to the Holy Spirit’s promptings, which will then inevitably keep that person in the center of God’s will.

Of course there are some doctrinal differences between SFC and LDS, besides believing whether or not Joseph Smith was a prophet and the Book of Mormon is from God. Three of these major doctrinal differences are:

(1) Whether or not Heavenly Father has a glorified body and what He looks like:

Spirit-filled Christians know that Jesus Christ has a glorified celestial body with glorified, celestial flesh and bones. Although the Bible has many verses that talk about our Heavenly Father sitting on a throne, having eyes, ears, face, back, etc., LDS beliefs go a step further. They believe Jesus’ glorified resurrected body of flesh and bones resembles that of our Heavenly Father’s, who also has a glorified body of celestial flesh and bones (see Part Two: Physical Body of God).

(2) When to accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ:

The LDS belief is that every person ever born will at some point hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ and have opportunity to repent of their sins and be saved (come unto Christ). Repentance can occur even after someone dies. Spirit-filled Christians, on the other hand, feel this belief is a terrible deception, which Satan uses to lead unsuspecting people quietly to hell. SFC feel this teaching ignores the urgent need to come to Christ during a person’s time on earth.

(3) The best ways to experience and invite the Holy Spirit:

The most significant doctrinal difference between the LDS and SFC is that although each are regularly accustomed to inviting and experiencing the presence of the Holy Spirit in both their congregational and personal worship, each group uses different methods. Each group’s favorite methods are often not shared by the other group. This perpetuates the belief that the Holy Spirit is not welcome and/or present in the other group’s personal and congregational worship, and that Satan is in fact deceiving the other group. When either group limits how the Holy Spirit is invited to manifest His presence, it grieves the Holy Spirit. He is called to be our Counselor and Teacher. When we limit Him to our traditions, this also limits our ability to grow progress in the Lord (see Part Two: Holy Spirit). Spirit-filled Christians may refer to this as tying His (the Holy Spirit’s) hands behind His back.

Chapter Two: The Brick Wall

or

Does This Sound Familiar?

Setting: Cafeteria

Eve and Justin: Two acquaintances, each deeply committed to their faiths.

Eve: (softly singing) There’s a sweet, sweet Spirit in this place, and I know that it’s the Spirit of the Lord. That was an awesome worship service last night! The Presence of the Lord was so strong … Oh, it’s my turn. I’ll take the chicken please, and can I have extra vegetables? Thanks. (Eve picks up her tray and walks into the lunchroom). Now, where am I going to sit? Jesus, please direct my path, just like we talked about last night. I want to be a fisher of men for Your glory.

Justin: (looking up) Hi, Eve. Are you waiting for someone, or would you like to join me?

Eve: (smiling) I’d love to join you, Justin. Thanks. (She sets her tray down). That’s a huge project we’ve been working on. I was glad to get a break from it over the weekend. Um … I always say grace, so please excuse me for a minute. (Eve bows her head and silently prays): Dear Father, Thanks for this food. Please bless it. And please help me and anoint me to share Christ with Justin. He always seems so nice and maybe even open to spiritual things… but I’ve heard he’s MORMON. Jesus, I love you, and I want to share Your love. Holy Spirit, give me the words to say that will minister to Justin’s heart, and draw him to the Lord. In Jesus’ Name. Amen. So, how was your weekend?

Justin: It was great. I went to the temple with my family. I really want to bear testimony to Eve. She’s such a good person, and we share so many of the same values.

Eve: Temple? HOLY SPIRIT, HELP ME!!!!!

Justin: Heavenly Father, please help me bear pure testimony, in Jesus’ name. Yes, the temple is a place where we can learn about Heavenly Father’s plan, and receive special ordinances so that we can return to live with Heavenly Father again. We can be sealed and our families can be together forever. My brother came with us. It was a very special time.

Eve: Families together forever? What’s he talking about families for? I want to talk about Jesus! ‘Heavenly Father’? That sounds so stilted. God’s not distant and uncaring! Yikes! I wonder if he even knows God? What was it that I heard about Mormons … that they put their trust in Joseph Smith and don’t believe the Bible? I don’t think that’s right. Justin seems OK to me… Um … what was that about ‘Heavenly Father’s plan’?

Justin: There’s a reason we’re here on earth. Heavenly Father wanted us to have the opportunity to have joy and become more like Him. This plan is described in the scriptures. This is My work and My glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." Dear Father, may Eve feel the Spirit as we talk.

Eve: Become more like God? That sounds horrible. Wait a minute … Maybe he means we’re supposed to become more like Christ. That would be OK. What else did Justin say? What’s the difference between immortality and eternal life? I have no idea what he’s talking about. At least he mentioned God. But he hasn’t even mentioned the name of Jesus yet! Maybe I can try to understand some of the basics of his beliefs, to help him come to Jesus. Um … do you know Jesus?

Justin (hesitates, confused): How can someone be so bold as to claim to completely know the Savior? Isn’t that presumptuous? I certainly don’t want to fall into pride …but I want Eve to know I’m thankful for Christ’s Atonement… Well, uh, yes …

Eve: If Justin knew anything at all about Jesus, he would have immediately answered with a strong Yes! I heard Mormons aren’t Christians, but I’ve known Justin for awhile, and I think he knows at least a little bit about what Jesus did for us. … Are you born again? Have you been saved? It’s OK if he has some weird beliefs, as long as he’s born again. If Justin knows he’s saved, if he’s got the assurance of his salvation, then that means he’s repented of his sins and placed his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Then he’s a Christian, no matter what church or denomination he attends.

Justin: How can I be so prideful to say that I am guaranteed entrance into the Celestial Kingdom? I know the Atonement of Christ will cleanse me if I repent of my sins and bring forth fruits showing repentance. But I cannot be absolutely sure that I will not sin again. I don’t want to be boastful. I’d better be positive, yet stay on safe ground … I hope so.

Eve: ‘I hope so??’ There is no way Justin can be a Christian if he doesn’t even understand the plan of salvation. That must be why he’s hesitating when he answers these simple basic questions. Lord, how can I help him understand that you must repent of your sins and place your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved? Justin, if you were to die tonight, what do you think would happen to you?

Justin: Well, I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints…

Eve: It doesn’t matter what name you stick on the door of your church. What matters is if you personally place your faith in Christ! This is the first time he’s even mentioned the Name of Jesus. If Justin knew and loved Jesus, he wouldn’t talk about his church, he’d talk about Jesus! Dear God, Justin’s farther from You than what I thought!

Justin: … and we believe that the Atonement of Christ has provided immortality for all mankind, and eternal life for those who will repent and come unto Christ. The temple is a holy place where we can go and make eternal covenants so we can return and live with Heavenly Father with our families forever. This is a really good opportunity to bear my testimony. I wonder why Eve looks so stressed? Why does this seem so hard? Why do I feel this confusion? Heavenly Father, help me. I pray in Jesus’ name.

Eve: ‘The Atonement of Christ’? ‘Come unto Christ’? – Justin sounds like he’s trying to distance himself from Jesus! If he knew Jesus, he’d know how loving He is, how awesome He is. He’d want to draw near to Him! OK, I’ve got to calm down. Anger does not achieve the purposes of God. Remember God hates the sin, but loves the sinner. The Lord loves Justin, and He loves me. Love is the only way to reach someone. If I can remember this, I can stay calm. Jesus, help me!

Justin: I want to bear strong testimony. I know Jesus is the Christ. Why do I feel this tension? Eve’s not getting angry or contentious. I know that she’s the same sect – she’s the same religion as Michael, and he got furious when I tried to bear testimony to him last month. I want to keep this simple and peaceful so that Eve can feel the Spirit as we talk.

Eve: OK, it looks like maybe Justin knows something about Jesus. But why would he say ‘Jesus is the Christ’? That’s so weird sounding. He also mentioned our Heavenly Father. I believe in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Ghost, which is one God. I think I read that Mormons don’t believe in the Godhead. Do you believe in the Trinity?

Justin: No. Heavenly Father is separate and distinct from Jesus Christ. The Savior is a separate and distinct Personage from the Holy Spirit. Of course They are united as one in purpose; They work in deep covenant together. They are all part of the Godhead. But there is no way They are all blended together in some nebulous oneness called ‘the Trinity.’ No. We don’t believe in the Trinity.

Eve: Yikes! O dear God, help me stay calm, and remember that Justin is Your kid, and You love him … If he doesn’t believe in the Trinity, I wonder which Person of the Godhead he doesn’t believe in? He mentioned God the Father. He talked about the Atonement of Christ, so he must know something about Jesus. He probably doesn’t know the Holy Spirit, because he hasn’t talked about Him yet. But lots of Christians don’t really know the Holy Spirit. I remember I didn’t really recognize the Holy Spirit until a couple of years after I got saved. But every Christian believes in the Trinity. Justin must have this view of God as some gaseous spirit-like substance that morphs back and forth between the three Persons of the Godhead. He must believe in some kind of untouchable spirit-cloud mass of weird God Beings. That’s gross. Lord, how can I help him understand the Trinity? If I focus on Jesus, maybe I can help him see how awesome the Lord is, and His incredible plans for us. What do you believe about Jesus?

Justin: "He is the Christ. He is the Savior. Through the Atonement, He has provided immortality for all mankind. Lord, help Eve feel the Spirit.

Eve: Why does Justin call Him ‘the Christ’ and ‘the Savior instead of Jesus our Lord or my Savior"? It sounds so standoffish and aloof. He must not understand the awesome price that Jesus paid for us at Calvary, because he keeps saying ‘the Atonement.’ Why would he want to distance himself from Jesus? Hasn’t Justin felt Jesus close to him at times? And what’s this ‘immortality for all mankind’ he keeps talking about? How can anyone in their right mind believe that Jesus automatically purchased entrance into Heaven for everybody, even those who refuse to repent of their sins? He obviously doesn’t understand that we must repent and come to Jesus. Only through Him can we be saved. Since he doesn’t believe in the Trinity, he probably doesn’t know that Jesus is God.

Justin: Eve seems confused. Maybe I should go back to where we started. We go to the temple to make covenants so that our families can be together forever. If I am true and faithful to my covenants, and endure to the end, I can, through Christ’s Atonement be resurrected with an immortal body and receive a degree of glory, hopefully the Celestial Kingdom.

Eve: ‘Endure to the end’? Oh dear God, that’s HORRIBLE! What a bondage! Oh! I feel sick inside for Justin. He doesn’t know Jesus. And why does he keep talking about a temple? A temple is just a building. What only matters is if the Lord shows up. There’s no way Justin understands anything about the Gospel and how to be saved if all he can do is hope for some ‘Celestial Kingdom.’ Lord, help me! I’ve got to remember to stick to the Word of God; it gives life …The Bible says in Ephesians 2:8-9 By grace you are saved through faith, not a result of works, lest any man should boast." I know it’s by God’s grace that we are saved. There is nothing we can do that can earn us salvation. I’ve heard that you’re a Mormon. Do Mormons believe the Bible?

Justin: Yes, we believe the Bible to be the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly. The Book of Mormon says ‘It is by grace we are saved after all we can do.’ We need to show by our actions that we have truly repented of our sins. Just saying a quick prayer isn’t good enough. We also need to do good works which include; sincere prayer, coupled with repentance, humility, placing our faith in Christ, and trying to make restitution if we have sinned against others. These are necessary works to show that we are sincere in our request for forgiveness. After we have done all of these things, when we come unto Christ, and ask in humble prayer, His Atonement will cleanse us from our sins.

Eve: ‘After all we can do’? What matters is what Jesus Christ did! There is no way we can be saved