The Squiggly Careers podcast has been hugely influential and useful for anyone interested in Career Development community. In this episode I talk to Sarah Ellis and Helen Tupper, the brilliant pair behind the podcast, the two bestselling books that have come out of it – Squiggly Careers and You Coach You – and the company they have founded, Amazing if.We discuss:How, in looking to throw out the old model of the ‘career ladder’, they arrived at that fascinating idea and language of the ‘squiggle’How they’ve found a much more engaging way to talk to people about confidence issues, and why it worksWhy dullness in large organisations is often a kind of conformityHow to be a ‘helpful rebel’ in big companies if you want to help shake up dull practicesAlong the way, they talk about a fascinating idea: ‘the long aha’ – that realisation that comes to you sometime after an engaging moment in a meeting, prompting you to question something you are doing, when you realise how pervasive that practice and issue has been in your life. As fascinating and useful as you would expect from the inimitable Sarah and Helen.Listen to the Squiggly Careers podcast  Find out more about Amazing If's work Helen and Sarah's books:The Squiggly CareerYou Coach You ________Connect with Adam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-morgan-3a473a/ Follow eatbigfish on Linkedin and Instagram See what’s coming up on the podcast at The Challenger Project With thanks to our editor Ruth and producer Ross. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.