369 The Invisible Racism We All Deny, Featuring Drs. Manuel Sierra and Matthew May Today we’re joined by Drs. Manuel Sierra and Matthew May on the sensitive topic of racism. Manuel Sierra MD is a child and adolescent psychiatrist practicing in Idaho, one of the places where he grew up (he also spent time in Oregon). He was a classmate of Matt May during his residency training days at Stanford, and they remain close friends today. Rhonda begins today’s podcast with this mail we received from Guillermo, one of our favorite podcast fans: Guillermo asks: How do you respond to family or friends who make racist comments? Hello, Dr Burns Not sure if you have addressed this in any of the podcasts (I don’t recall it being a topic) but: I was recently in a group chat with some cousins, and I read some really disappointing racist comments about a particular group. Many people ignored it (as I did) and a couple AGREED with the comments. How can we balance not judging not just any people but our longtime friends and family about overtly racist actions/comments and the thinking that it is not the event but our thoughts that create our emotions? I don’t care about “judging them” (in the sense that I don’t think it is my place to “change” their views) but just hearing/reading comments like this bothers me when they come from people close to me. When I see it on tv or the internet, I don’t get affected because I feel it is beyond my control. I don’t believe they will change their views so do I just remove them from my life? I apologize, the topic is too wide, but I’ve been thinking about this. Sincerely grateful for all you do, Guillermo Manuel kicked off our answer to Guillermo by saying that he has been personally familiar with racism within families and communities, and says that he and Matt have talked about this topic “a lot.” He explained that: Although I am proud of my Mexican-American heritage, I was born and grew up in Oregon and Idaho, where I’m currently practicing. I encountered considerable racial bias when I was a kid, and later in life as well. I clearly cannot speak for all Mexican-American people, I can only speak for myself and what I’ve personally experienced, and I am extremely aware of how difficult the current times are. My grandparents didn’t teach my mom Spanish. She was a single mom, and we lived in a small town in Idaho. I also have family through marriage who live on Native American lands. In grade school I began hearing jokes about Mexican Americans, and this was very awkward, painful, for me. I also got ridiculed for not speaking Spanish.  Even my grandfather asked me, “why aren’t you speaking Spanish?” There were also gangs where the racial bias got worse and frequently turned violent. After learning more about Manuel’s experiences, we modeled various ways of talking to a friend or family member who has made hurtful racist comments. Manuel cautioned that it might be best to do provide the feedback individually, and not in public, so as not to shame the person. In addition, this can reduce the chance for social posturing and responding in an adversarial way. Matt agreed and emphasized the importance of combining your “I Feel” Statement with Stroking. For example, you might say something like this, assuming the racial slur comment came from a relative or person you like, Jim, as you know, you’re one of my favorite people, but I want you to know that when you said X, Y and Z, it really upset me, because it sounded like a put down to people who are (Mexican, Jewish, Moslem, gay, or whatever). I (David) like this approach because it sounds respectful and direct, but not judgmental or condemning. Rhonda modeled an excellent alternative response which included this type of add-on: “And I’m going to request that you not say that again in my presence. “ I (David) would prefer not to add the directive statement at the end, which could, in theory, rankle some individuals with coercion sensitivity, because it might sound scol