Karel continues on with his leveling up series focussing on career transitions. He is again joined by Renee Albert and Herman Colquhoun. In Part 1 of the interview in the LH111, Renee and Herman describe their early lives and their educational journeys together with the pivots each took and the insights they gleaned from the experience. This Part 2 gets into their actual career trajectories and also their involvement in the IBM Racial Equity in Design movement. In this Part 3 we get into what sorts of things talented and successful professionals like Renee and Herman do in addition to their days jobs.