Patrick revisits his 2020 interview with Ryan Berman for the final 2021 podcast episode. Ryan Berman knows a great deal about the importance of courage. He has spent his career creating and sharing courageous ideas. He also invested four years of his life interviewing leaders and studying organizations to understand why courage matters. In 2019, Ryan released Return on Courage: A Business Playbook for Courage Change. Let’s face it, we need courageous leaders – people who stand for something and are willing to take action. Ryan joins Patrick in the lab to help you to become the courageous leader that people need. You can learn more about Ryan’s work at www.returnoncourage.com or by emailing him at ryanberman@couragebrands.com.