This conversation is part of the series 'Moral Matters Matter' ('Dare to know!' Philosophy Podcast). Today we are joined by Frans de Waal. Frans de Waal is a Dutch/American biologist and primatologist known for his work on the behavior and social intelligence of primates. He is Professor in the Psychology Department of Emory University and Director of the Living Links Center at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center, in Atlanta, Georgia. Since 2013, he is a Distinguished Professor (Universiteitshoogleraar) at Utrecht University. His first book, Chimpanzee Politics (1982) compared the schmoozing and scheming of chimpanzees involved in power struggles with that of human politicians. Ever since, de Waal has drawn parallels between primate and human behavior, from peacemaking and morality to culture. His popular books — translated into twenty languages — have made him one of the world's most visible primatologists. His latest books are The Age of Empathy (2009), and The Bonobo and the Atheist (2013), Are We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are? (2016), & Mama's Last Hug (2018), . Two recent edited volumes are The Primate Mind (2012) and Evolved Morality (2014).