Two years into the COVID pandemic, the relationship between experts and the public is frayed. There is blame to go around. Josh talks with experts on expertise Tom Nichols and Lanhee Chen about what experts are for, how expertise has been misused and misunderstood, and how politicians can best combine expert opinion with value judgments to make policies the public will accept. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Get full access to Very Serious at www.joshbarro.com/subscribe