Mark talks to Yotam Ottolenghi about veganism, the hardest vegetables to cook, and what the "real" hummus is; and to Mayukh Sen about the complicated legacy of Julia Child, the beauty and power of women in food, and what "success" for immigrants really looks like. Order Yotam Ottolenghi's book Ottolenghi Test Kitchen: Shelf Love and Mayukh Sen's book Taste Makers: Seven Immigrant Women Who Revolutionized Food in America wherever books are sold.This episode was sponsored by Charles Schwab (www.schwab.com) and Luke's Lobster (www.lukeslobster.com and promo code BITTMAN15 for 15% off).Subscribe to Food with Mark Bittman on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen, and please leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts. Follow Mark on Twitter at @bittman, and on Facebook and Instagram at @markbittman. Subscribe to Mark's newsletter The Bittman Project at www.bittmanproject.com. Our GDPR privacy policy was updated on August 8, 2022. Visit acast.com/privacy for more information.