Part two of Mike's interview with Ben Lovejoy, a creative director based in Boulder, Colorado. Recorded in Mike's studio in Boulder on January 30, 2019. Subjects include: Spacegallery, Robert Goldberg, starting an ad agency, tattoos, sobriety, meditation, Dharma Punx, Waldorf Roulette, Boulder, cycling, live speaking, “Scream to Meditate”, the Gaia network.