There are only so many victories that can happen for Public Defense in a court room. Of course, we should the goal should be zealous advocacy and the best outcome for each client, but a single victory in a single case is not enough to stem the tide of Mass Incarceration. Real victories for the accused come at the policy level, and that is what this week’s conversation is all about. Joining Hunter this week is Brad Haywood and Bryan Kennedy, two public defenders in Virginia and members of the non-partisan policy advocacy group, Justice Forward Virginia!   Throughout the conversation, both Brad and Bryan highlight the importance of brining the public defender voice to the policy table. Without that voice, policy makers are often directed by the only criminal justice stakeholders in the room: Police and Prosecutors. Organizations like Justice Forward, while difficult to start and sustain, are an essential factor for those looking to zealously fight for public defense reform at the level where small changes make the most impact.   Guests: Brad Haywood, Chief Public Defender, Arlington VA Bryan Kennedy, Assistant Public Defender, Fairfax VA   Key Topics and Takeaways: Introduction to Brad, Bryan, and Justice Forward [6:30]   How to fill the knowledge gap between the theory of law and the practice of law [12:45]   The importance of having a public defender at the policy table [15:40]   Policy Victories for Justice Forward [21:10]   Sustaining Victories and Understanding the Political Landscape of Virginia [28:19]   Lies perpetuated by the media about Criminal Justice Reform [37:00]   Impacts of Virginia Laws on Racial Minorites [42:50]   How to Best Message Progressive Criminal Justice Policies [49:50]   Advice for those seeking Policy Reform [57:50]   Resources: Justice Forward Virginia   Example of Media Bias Around Shooting in Arlington   Follow them on twitter: Brad Haywood @BradleyRHaywood Bryan Kennedy @kennedybtd Justive Foward Virginia      Contact Hunter Parnell:   hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com   Instagram   Twitter   www.publicdefenseless.com