In this episode, CJ talks with the original duo of the Salem Witch Trials the HR Heretics podcast, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church about tech layoffs in 2024. Kelli and Nolan hold no punches and give straight answers to tough questions on layoffs, the job market, and employment best practices. If you're looking for an ERP head to NetSuite: https://netsuite.com/metrics and get a one-of-a-kind flexible financing program until April 15th, 2024.RECOMMENDED PODCAST: HR HereticsJoin Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich for  unfiltered conversations with people leaders, investors, and CEOS. Dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors. Substack: Spotify: Apple: SPONSORS:Maxio is the only billing and financial operations platform that was purpose built for B2B SaaS. They're helping SaaS finance teams automate billing and revenue recognition, manage collections and payments, and put together investor grade reporting packages. ? Request a demo at www.maxio.com/runthenumbers for 10% off your first year.NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than 37,000 thousand companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅ Now through April 15th NetSuite is offering a one-of-a-kind flexible financing program https://netsuite.com/metrics Thoropass provides complete compliance management, continuous monitoring, and security audits through intuitive software and expert guidance – allowing you to do business with confidence. Learn more: https://bit.ly/Thoropass ?Tropic is the next-generation Procurement Platform that’s helping modern CFOs take control of their budgets and bottom line. By combining approval workflows, supplier management, and pricing benchmarks all in one place, Tropic makes savings opportunities easy to find and act on. ? Visit www.tropicapp.io/metrics to learn how.—FOLLOW US ON X:@cjgustafson222 (CJ)@kellidragovich (Kelli)@NolanChurch (Nolan)@turpentinemedia—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Preview(00:25) Round 2 with HR Heretics (01:57) Sponsor: Maxio | NetSuite (04:27) Why Heretics?(05:05) Millennials, Social Media, and Recorded Layoffs(11:26) Navigating Layoffs and Role Eliminations(15:31) Human-Centered is Good Business(17:52) Role Eliminations or Layoff? (19:00) Sponsor: Thoropass | Tropic(21:27) Managing Out Bottom Performers(26:37) Severance Packages: From Crappy to Great(28:11) Supporting Low Performers(31:55) The Illusion of Safety in Big Companies (34:33 ) When Big Company Experience is Sending a Negative Signal(43:20) Working at Smaller Startups(45:31) On Attrition Rates(50:19) Quiet Quitting and Beyond(53:55) Wrap Get full access to Mostly metrics at www.mostlymetrics.com/subscribe