In this episode, A'ndre and Ryan talk to Jim Lawler, who served for 25 years as a CIA operations officer. The conversation begins with Jim's story of joining the CIA and how he found himself working on nonproliferation issues. Jim details how he and his team disrupted the A.Q. Khan network and the threats of state and non state actors. They also discuss Jim's novels, Living Lies and In the Twinkling of an Eye, as well as his forthcoming novel The Traitor’s Tale.