Known to her loyalists as the “spiritual catalyst” but to her critics as the “suicide catalyst,” New Age influencer Teal Swan is a controversial 30-something self-help guru who some say has saved lives and others say has ended them. Having launched a social media career in the mid-2000s (and still going strong), Swan doesn’t post about beauty products and travel inspo but rather spiritual-meets-“scientific” teachings on a wide range of topics from addiction to chakras to vaccines to suicide. Some of her most committed adherents follow her down to Costa Rica to experience her shady self-actualization techniques IRL. Swan is the subject of the new Hulu docuseries The Deep End, based on the fascinating 2018 podcast The Gateway, which was created and hosted by this week’s guest, Jennings Brown, who’s here to talk with Amanda and Isa about the fanatical “cult” Swan has built online.

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