In this episode, Wendy speaks with musician, contemplative, researcher, and activist Grant Jones. Grant is working to develop and implement contemplative and liberatory tools for underserved populations. This conversation covers many topics, including:


blending music, psychology, contemplation, and activism;

music and mindfulness for healing race-based anxiety;

collaborating with Lama Rod Owens, Esperanza Spalding, and others;

the absence of research on black music;

music medicine vs. music therapy;

pleasure activism as a form of disruption;

balancing structure and freedom;

the Black Lotus Collective;

links between psychedelics and meditation;

potential benefits and harm of psychedelic treatment, and how race plays in;

the power of music to transcend language and culture;

balancing identity with non-self;

and letting go, having fun, and not being too serious.

Full show notes and resources