Did you know that some early childhood folx have strong feelings AGAINST pushing children on swings? What started as text chat between Mike Huber and Carol Garboden Murray (and was then shared with host Heather Bernt-Santy) turned into a really good episode about child development, adult roles and a "serve and return" that is both literal and theoretical. Want to support Heather's work? You can "Buy Her a Coffee" here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/heatherf