Manuel Muñiz, the Provost of IE University in Madrid and the former Spanish Vice-Minister of Foreign Affairs, talks to us about the massive shifts our societies, economies and systems of governance are undergoing. The changes may be not as visual – no one is tearing down a wall – but they are as significant as what has happened at the end of the Cold War with the undoing of the international order, fracturing of the social contract, and the hollowing of the middle class leading to the hollowing of the middle of the political spectrum. What is peculiar is that is not a problem of scarcity but a product of the incapacity to manage and govern abundance well. What are the solutions? He says we need to embrace complexity, with governments needing to take the space and the opportunity to reshape the welfare state, the redistributive mechanisms, the taxation, the competitions and the antitrust policies. Joined-up reforms are needed on all fronts. Follow his discussion with Gabriela Ramos, UNESCO’s Assistant Director-General for Social and Human Sciences, for details on how that is to be done.