This podcast is part of the high-level podcast series, which introduces listeners to the world’s leading figures as they discuss how we can rebuild in a fairer and a smarter way after COVID-19.

Our guest in this episode is Professor Bambang Brodjonegoro, the Minister of Research and Technology of Indonesia. He has formerly served as both the country’s Minister of National Development Planning and the Minister of Finance.

The host is Gabriela Ramos, UNESCO’s Assistant Director General for Social and Human Sciences.

Together we connect the dots between post-COVID recovery, the place of knowledge in it, and the ways to make it inclusive. We go into:

· If/how this moment of disruption could be leveraged to reset in a smarter way and make a stride towards knowledge economies;

· How equity is to be in-built into our new patterns of development to avoid driving inequality even further; and

· Ways to invest in knowledge systems so that they stay agile and provide solutions to the current (and other looming) crises.