In our work, we often lean on the metaphors of nature. We speak of landscapes, flows, seasons and cycles. And yet often enough, our treatments are geared to interfere with what we find. We look to ‘re-channel’ the flow. To drain away that which we deem obstructive. To bust up qi, especially if we find the Liver to be involved. From an outsider’s perspective, we seem to have a bad attitude towards the Liver.I often enough have asked myself the question when seeing patients, “Am I working from the perspective of Husbandry or from that of a Corps of Engineers manager?” Am I working with the environment or in some ways against it?In this conversation with Karen Elisa we investigate what it means to attend and follow. Do we listen to what our patient needs, or our own ideas of what they should have? And short, do we trust our patient’s body and being, or not?Listen into this conversation on using our hands and senses to attentively follow the body’s flow and get out of the way so our patients can allow themselves to bring forward a great state of wellbeing.