Our job in clinic is to help people both through knowing what treatment to provide and having the ability to discern how to help when the signs are not clear. We constantly dance with both knowing and not-knowing.In this conversation with Ben Hawes we discuss how the alignment of the vertebra on the spine tells a story and helps to guide an acupuncture treatment. And beyond that how we tease apart ways of knowing, and how our perception both gives us information and blinds us to where our attention does not flow.Listen in to this discussion of perception, attention and how keeping an open and skeptical mind is essential in seeing more clearly how we can be helpful to our patients.