Layman is joined by Forrest Landry, philosopher of Immanent Metaphysics, a great lover of trinities, a possible mentat, and through his work on human assembly and ephemeral group processes, among other things, a serious contributor to both the theory and practice of more agile, more benevolent, and more satisfying group behavior.  In their conversation, they focus on some of the core concepts of human assembly and ephemeral group process, and then broaden the lens to reflect on other topics related to the meaning crisis, spirituality, attention to the wild fringes of our knowledge systems, and much more.  
Forrest Landry is a philosopher, writer, researcher, scientist, engineer, craftsman, and teacher focused on metaphysics, the manner in which software applications, tools, and techniques influence the design and management of very large scale complex systems, and the thriving of all forms of life on this planet.  His research interests and activities generally center on questions and concerns in three main related areas: 1, the manner and degree to/by which product and systems design influences culture and ecology; 2, an exploration of the nature of the interface between the organic and the inorganic, particularly as realized in the relationship between concept and computation; and 3, the manner and models by which effective personal and social governance could potentially be achieved.

Immanent Metaphysics
mflb.com/uvsm_8/index_uvsm_5.html
Human Systems
www.magic-flight.com/pub/uvsm_1/sgrp_small_group_2.pdf