Most conservationists are motivated by the purpose of their work. But that work often involves a lot of struggle and it can be daunting, especially when one does not yet have the experience of hard-won success to draw inspiration from. So, how do we keep going when the odds seem stacked against us?Grant Pearsell and Widar Narvelo both recently retired from decades-long, pioneering careers in urban conservation - Widar at the City of Helsingborg in Sweden and Grant at the City of Edmonton in Canada. In this discussion they share some of the wisdom and experience they have gathered over their lifelong work. 1:33: How Widar and Grant chose careers in conservation6:15: Conservation goals compared with broader institutional goals12:53: Most difficult career challenges17:16: Ecosystem services as a tool, or not19:04: Most rewarding career achievements24:27: Changes in public and institutional attitude over time26:11: Importance of integration into broader planning28:04: Communicating conservation with non-conservation language31:11: Advice to conservationists who feel they are struggling against the oddsVisit www.case4conservation.com