A wide ranging conversation with Michael Shellenberger exploring the Malthusian origins of environmentalism and what happened to the left as it morphed from a promethean movement concerned with material improvement of the living conditions of the masses towards a romantic longing to return to a pre-industrial Eden. Michael explains that modern infrastructure such as flood control systems, weather prediction and modern healthcare have played a decisive role in the 100 fold drop in mortality from extreme weather events in the 20th century and demonstrate the need for ongoing industrialization within countries most at risk of climate impacts. We also explore recent developments in the UK with the pending approval of Sizewell C and the end-game for renewables as the marketing claims begin to wear thin and the taboo on criticism falls away. 
https://www.patreon.com/posts/decouple-on-41428860