In episode 299, Kestrel welcomes Liz Spencer, the natural dye wizard behind Dogwood Dyer, to the show. With experience in both tending organic natural dye gardens and coaxing color from plants, Liz has devoted her artistic practice to discovering as much as possible about color that can come from plants. “That’s sort of the pathway to understanding — is having the time to be intimate with one thing in particular like indigo or any dye plant, especially if you’re growing your color, or even growing your own fiber — is spending a whole year just getting it to where you have the raw material, and then starting the process of creating the color or creating the textile. It really affords you ample time to ask many questions, and to holistically get to know it.” -Liz Something that’s super important to me within this conversation is cultural sustainability – and ensuring we are acknowledging and respecting the roots of cultural traditions and craft techniques that have origins within many Black and Brown Indigenous communities.  As many of you have heard my guests and myself talk about over the years – the mainstream sustainability movement has done a lot of stealing and co-opting of knowledge and ideas, without crediting where these concepts originated.  Ever since I read an article by Nathalie Peña in Katie Pruett’s Ethical Style Journal, I instantly think of these realities with regard to natural dye techniques.  For example – the dusty pink color, also known as millennial pink – that has been trending for the last several years has origins in Mexican culture, with the color being derived from avocado pits. But rarely do we hear this origin story from natural dyers or folks using these techniques in the space today. This week’s guest has a voracious curiosity when it comes to all things natural dyeing. She has been growing plants for natural color and experimenting with adding color to garments using natural dyes for years now.  As a white woman in the sustainability space, I admire the deep learnings Liz has collected, with regard to the cultural origins attached to the techniques she uses, and the ways she continues to work to find creative and thoughtful ways to honor these roots.  We get into these layers, as well as more on the differences between synthetic, biosynthetic and natural dyes, and some nuanced thoughts around the so-called *scalability* of natural dyes. Quotes & links from the conversation: “Cultural Sustainability and Natural Dyes in Fashion”, article from Ethical Style Journal that Kestrel mentions in intro  “What are biosynthetic dyes & could they replace the toxic petroleum-heavy ingredients in today's predominant indigo garment dye?” (Conscious Chatter episode 274 that Liz mentions) “Those stable colors, I feel are worth the investment, but it just takes more time. And so, that’s the biggest difference between retrieving brilliant colors with natural dyes vs synthetic dyes. And each has its consequence. One is — with natural color, more time investment. And then, one is — with synthetic dyes, the potential for having to problem solve when it comes to the product, the potential toxicity of synthetic dye effluent and what’s left over that’s really not biodegradable.” -Liz (29:27) “I think it’s really important for anyone that gets into natural dyeing or starts on a path to do conscious digging and question-asking when sourcing the dyestuffs, and then of course working with them. Because you invariably will uncover complicated and painful context of history of these beautiful colors. I always recommend too — if you have the privilege to work with any of the dyes, in situ of their native habitat that they come from, or if you’ve worked with any of the dyers who hold the dye knowledge within their cultural and historical lineage — to share their work and to encourage others to seek out from them, to go and learn from them if they’re seeking students. It’s really important to understand the provenance a