In episode 304, Kestrel welcomes Eric Liedke, the co-founder and CEO of UNLESS, to the show. A collective of innovators, engineers, artists, and activists, UNLESS make plant-based streetwear designed to leave zero plastic waste. “I think sustainability is one of those hygiene words at this point — like everybody can talk themselves into they’re doing sustainable things. I think we need to get more specific. I think as marketers and storytellers, we need to really be very clear with our consumers what we’re doing. And you know, this crewneck that nobody can see today that I’m wearing, it’s gonna last as long as anything else, but when you’re done with it, it will go harmlessly back to earth. And I’m using some of our old product and some of our scraps actually as feed for my raised bed gardens at home. This stuff works and it makes good, nutritious soil that we can grow roses or cotton or tomatoes out of.” -Eric Have you ever heard that recurring question in the sustainability and fashion space? I’d say it’s also one that permeates the world of climate advocacy as well – and let’s be honest, it’s pretty binary-oriented in its framing.  I’m talking about the question of which is needed most – individual action, governmental action or corporate change. I mean, let’s be real – we are in a state of emergency here, so all hands on deck is preferable, and many of these overlap, but you know, the mainstream narrative continues to search for the golden ticket that will get us all out of this mess.  One thing I hear so much more nowadays than in recent years is – the need for corporations to change. There are petitions regularly circulated, there’s all the advocacy work organizations like Remake are doing pushing brands to sign onto the International Accord for garment worker safety. And in alignment with this, there is a lot going on with legislation to try to pass legal frameworks that would hold brands accountable to do better. And on that corporate change note – at this current moment in time, we are amidst an era of strikes happening across different industries because the power holders on top don’t want to share with the folks working further down the hierarchy. From actors and writers in the entertainment industry to municipal workers and hotel employees, the pressure is on for corporations to change – to share a bigger piece of the massive pie they’re indulging in. But also – it’s important to acknowledge that there are so many folks across the corporate space working in sustainability and beyond, and trying to challenge the system from within to change. And let’s be real – that’s not an easy task with all the current systems in place.  This week’s guest worked from the inside for a so-called *power player* for over 25 years trying to push for change, and then, he left to start his own company with a focus on collaborating with innovators, engineers, artists, and activists, to make plant-based streetwear that leaves zero plastic waste behind.  Quotes & links from the conversation: “I did as much as I could when I was at Adidas to turn us from a brand that was focused on just virgin polyester use — as for those that don’t know, 70% of fashion and especially sports brands are made from petroleum. It’s basically been this advent of petroleum-based product called polyesters or nylons or spandexes, but it all comes from petroleum-based products, which is forever material. When you start to become aware of that, and you start to become aware of the degradation these forever materials have on the planet, on our fellow species, on ourselves, you find it harder and harder to whisper yourself to sleep. And those voices that were personal to you, come up louder and louder in your head. And you can’t unhear and unsee the things you’re doing. So, at a certain point, you’re like ok, I need to step outside and take this industrial experience I have from 26 years at Adidas and my passion for a better way and helping solve the world’s problems