0:00 -- Intro.1:38 -- Start of interview.2:56 -- George's "origin story."  He's based in London since 1988. About his new role at the European Corporate Governance Institute (ECGI).7:24 -- Mike's "origin story." On his experience with ADRs and cross-listings with Latin American companies. His experience working at NYC and Mexican law firms, the World Bank, the International Finance Corporation (IFC), OECD-Latin America Roundtable on Corporate Governance and Cartica Management.15:52 -- On the origin and focus of their book  "Governance, Stewardship and Sustainability." (2nd edition 2022). Based on (and used for) the ICGN course of the same name.20:37 -- How they define stewardship, sustainability and ESG.27:22 -- On ICGN Global Stewardship Principles and ICGN Global Governance Principles. The G20/OECD Principles of Corporate Governance.31:07 -- On their ESG methodology, proposed in their book.34:52 -- The Volkswagen Dieselgate scandal and case study.39:51 -- On two-tiered boards, employee representation on boards, and purpose of the corporation (stakeholder v shareholder visions).43:00 -- On the politicization of governance and the "anti-ESG" trend in the U.S. 48:20  -- On large asset managers passing-through voting power to beneficial owners (see BlackRock's Voting Choice). 51:17  -- Thoughts and recommendations for directors regarding shareholder activism (from Mike Lubrano)53:44  -- Activism in emerging markets, and/or in controlled companies.56:58  -- Thoughts and recommendations for directors (from George Dallas).59:20 - What are the 1-3 books that have greatly influenced your life: George:The Art of Loving, by Erich Fromm (1956)Author: Amor Towles.Mike:Author: Terry Pratchett (valued for his irreverence)Author: Tony Judt (historian)Author: Enrique Krauze (Mexican historian)01:00:51 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?George: John Holcomb (academic), Bob Monks and Nell Minow, Prof Christian Strenger (Germany)Mike: Stephen Davis, George Dallas, Mats Isaksson (ex OECD)01:03:46 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by? George: From Galatians 5:22-23, the fruit of the Spirit: “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.”Mike: "Good is good, too good is no good." (from his Sicilian grandmother)01:05:12 -  An unusual habit or an absurd thing that they love: George: he plays in the banjo in local bluegrass band.Mike: backyard pizza maker.01:06:14 -  The living person they most admire:George: John Lewis (recently passed) and Jimmy Carter.Mike: Barack Obama.George Dallas is the Head of Content at the European Corporate Governance Institute (ECGI) and former Policy Director at the International Corporate Governance Network (ICGN).Mike Lubrano is a Managing Director of Valoris Stewardship Catalysts and former Managing Director of Corporate Governance and Sustainability at Cartica Management, LLC.__ You can follow Evan on social media at:Twitter: @evanepsteinLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/__Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License